Ask Supes

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I asked him because he said they were trying to be competitive not the people who disagree with him

 

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Hey, why're you tryna sic AH on me anyway?  I told you there's no beef allowed in 2021.  We're friends now (in 2021, which is where I'm living now).

Thanks, Peo.  Either way, not trying to target anyone (even including kg!).  I don't think we were trying to compete last year and said that last summer.  When you and I were discussing the front court, we disagreed on the right timing for evaluating who TS signed.  But we agreed on the end result and I shared my view that the end result signaled we were not trying to make the playoffs.  TS's later comments around where they had projected the team to finish reinforced that for me.

I expect next season to be the first year under TS where we are gunning for the playoffs.

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I find if funny how people try to call out the NBA for it when basically every major corporation is in the exact same boat just not as visible.

And I bet nobody's gonna chuck their i-phone in protest either.

I worked for big oil in a senior position. They would pull your salary and job so fast if you f***ed up their global interest especially China. China had us take Hong Kong and Taiwan down for China and we couldn't do shit about it. That was over a billion dollars in interest, in a margins world, we couldn't afford that L or a lot of people will lose their jobs. People don't care about people jobs. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[bleachkit]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Any corporation would have done the same. 

 

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I find if funny how people try to call out the NBA for it when basically every major corporation is in the exact same boat just not as visible.

And I bet nobody's gonna chuck their i-phone in protest either.

China has more leverage on the NBA than a company like Apple. Basketball is an entertainment product, so it's optional, and Americans don't watch Chinese basketball, meaning the NBA needs China more than China needs the NBA. Apple could contract with a non Chinese manufacturer if need be. They are beholden to their shareholders first and foremost. NBA could probably not find a market for basketball like China. But championing social justice while turning a blind eye to human rights abuses in your major international partner is problematic, it's certainly a fair criticism. So yes, like any other corporation, the NBA cares about profits, regardless of what they claim to care about. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

 

China has more leverage on the NBA than a company like Apple. Basketball is an entertainment product, so it's optional, and Americans don't watch Chinese basketball, meaning the NBA needs China more than China needs the NBA. Apple could contract with a non Chinese manufacturer if need be. They are beholden to their shareholders first and foremost. NBA could probably not find a market for basketball like China. But championing social justice while turning a blind eye to human rights abuses in your major international partner is problematic, it's certainly a fair criticism. So yes, like any other corporation, the NBA cares about profits, regardless of what they claim to care about. 

All companies dealing with China are beholding to China. Shareholders want to see profits. Simple as that.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

All companies dealing with China are beholding to China. Shareholders want to see profits. Simple as that.

Yes but in this relationship China has all the leverage, not necessarily the case with other corporations.

[thecampster]

 

I would take a serious flyer on Boogie. He would look very nice getting 15-20 minutes per game backing up Capela/Collins in a 6th man type of a role. We have the money and I'm thinking $8 million year one with a raise year two mutual option. effectively its a 1 year deal.

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by thecampster

[bird_dirt]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

All companies dealing with China are beholding to China. Shareholders want to see profits. Simple as that.

Yep. If it were such a simple thing to pull out of China, Apple would have done it long ago. But they're willing to deal with some IP issues and look the other way on human rights because they're not going to find the combination of infrastructure, cheap labor, and skilled labor anywhere else in the world. 

Shareholders won't let Apple spend all the money to build and develop everything in Mexico or Africa. 

And that's not even getting into the market of customers in China. 

Apple is absolutely beholden to China.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, thecampster said:

 

I would take a serious flyer on Boogie. He would look very nice getting 15-20 minutes per game backing up Capela/Collins in a 6th man type of a role. We have the money and I'm thinking $8 million year one with a raise year two mutual option. effectively its a 1 year deal.

 

I heard he's a Laker lock and replacing Dwight. He was already a Laker anyway so he got a ring this year but they want him back. Lakers want Dwight but they can only pay him so much and don't really want to give more than the min.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Yep. If it were such a simple thing to pull out of China, Apple would have done it long ago. But they're willing to deal with some IP issues and look the other way on human rights because they're not going to find the combination of infrastructure, cheap labor, and skilled labor anywhere else in the world. 

Shareholders won't let Apple spend all the money to build and develop everything in Mexico or Africa. 

And that's not even getting into the market of customers in China. 

Apple is absolutely beholden to China.

Yes they are, but unlike the NBA, China is also beholden to Apple. Foxconn needs Apple and their enormous contact. Whereas the Chinese government could wipe the NBA from the Chinese map without blinking an eye, it's merely an entertainment product.

[NBASupes]

Just now, bleachkit said:

Yes they are, but unlike the NBA, China is also beholden to Apple. Foxconn needs Apple and their enormous contact. Whereas the Chinese government could wipe the NBA from the Chinese map without blinking an eye, it's merely an entertainment product.

You aren't following. If China makes a stance, you can't be an employee, do what Morey did and expect to keep your job. They will fire you with mach speed 

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Yep. If it were such a simple thing to pull out of China, Apple would have done it long ago. But they're willing to deal with some IP issues and look the other way on human rights because they're not going to find the combination of infrastructure, cheap labor, and skilled labor anywhere else in the world. 

Shareholders won't let Apple spend all the money to build and develop everything in Mexico or Africa. 

And that's not even getting into the market of customers in China. 

Apple is absolutely beholden to China.

No, no, bird_ .. it's just the NBA. 

It's like taking a foreign company that deals in the US and telling them, "Ah, to heyul with America.  Just build and sell somewhere else."  As if it's just that easy.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

You aren't following. If China makes a stance, you can't be an employee, do what Morey did and expect to keep your job. They will fire you with mach speed 

Morey wasn't fired when this happened. He kept his job. What are you talking about?

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Morey wasn't fired when this happened. He kept his job. What are you talking about?

Because this was a political issue. The Rockets would lose with both parties firing Morey and the American people. That's why they waited till the offseason. Houston has a lot of business with China. They needed they money and it cost the organization a lot. I know ppl in that org. I said where I work in big oil, if I had major cache, I would be fired but when you have Ted Cruz and famous Democrats on both sides in this on Morey side. You got nothing to win and everything to lose. It cost the Rockets millions and the NBA nearly a billion. Morey is seen as nuclear now. 

If one of my employees cost me a billion. I am whooping their ass.

Edited October 15, 2020 by NBASupes

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Because this was a political issue. The Rockets would lose with both parties firing Morey and the American people. That's why they waited till the offseason. Houston has a lot of business with China. They needed they money and it cost the organization a lot. I know ppl in that org. I said where I work in big oil, if I had major cache, I would be fired but when you have Ted Cruz and famous Democrats on both sides in this on Morey side. You got nothing to win and everything to lose. It cost the Rockets millions and the NBA nearly a billion. Morey is seen as nuclear now. 

If one of my employees cost me a billion. I am whooping their ass.

The timing seems more than a little suspect that China turned the NBA back such a short time before Houston announced that Morey was gone.  

Whether he is untouchable or not will be easy to see.  He has a strong track record as a GM that should objectively make him a top 25% candidate which means he should not be without job offers as soon as he becomes available.  If no other team hires him by the end of this offseason that should raise flags.  If nobody hires him by next offseason that should be absolute confirmation.

[bleachkit]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Because this was a political issue. The Rockets would lose with both parties firing Morey and the American people. That's why they waited till the offseason. Houston has a lot of business with China. They needed they money and it cost the organization a lot. I know ppl in that org. I said where I work in big oil, if I had major cache, I would be fired but when you have Ted Cruz and famous Democrats on both sides in this on Morey side. You got nothing to win and everything to lose. It cost the Rockets millions and the NBA nearly a billion. Morey is seen as nuclear now. 

If one of my employees cost me a billion. I am whooping their ass.

All sources are saying this 100% Morey's decision to step down. Literally no one here sided against Morey, it might have been the only issue that AOC and Ted Cruz agreed on. If a statement defending human rights cost you a billion, maybe Morey isnt the problem, maybe the partnership with an Authoritarian state is the problem. 

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

The timing seems more than a little suspect that China turned the NBA back such a short time before Houston announced that Morey was gone.  

Whether he is untouchable or not will be easy to see.  He has a strong track record as a GM that should objectively make him a top 25% candidate which means he should not be without job offers as soon as he becomes available.  If no other team hires him by the end of this offseason that should raise flags.  If nobody hires him by next offseason that should be absolute confirmation.

At age 48, he's certainly too young to retire. He had a contract through 2025 so he gets paid either way. Letting him make big bets on small ball last year does not seem like the decisions of a lame duck GM to be inevitably fired at the behest of Chinese overlords.

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

At age 48, he's certainly too young to retire. He had a contract through 2025 so he gets paid either way. Letting him make big bets on small ball last year does not seem like the decisions of a lame duck GM to be inevitably fired at the behest of Chinese overlords.

I agree that he totally did not sign that contract extension 18 months ago with either Houston or him intending to see him leave the team.  If he is truly making the decision to leave the team, however, then he doesn't get paid.  He only gets paid if the team is willing to pay him.  To be entitled to pay under your contract, you have to be fired without cause or actually working....unless the team is willing to eat the money in order to get rid of you and move on.

Morey's vague "leaving to pursue other opportunities" and "getting to spend more time with family" reads like a termination to me.  That is how you couch the termination of an exec in 99% of cases where the company wants to get rid of them.  

It is also how Morey can play ball to let the NBA save face while still meeting China's demand to get rid of Morey.  Morey gets paid, plays nice hoping for a return after fires have cooled, and the league can say this was all Morey's idea and had nothing to do with that nine figure loss of Chinese revenue.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case but it looks suspiciously like this to me.  As I said, if another team hires him or at least loudly pursues him then that would undercut that theory.  If no other team is aggressively going after a GM with his track record, then I think that tends to support the idea he was forced out due to a broader concern of harm to league by his association.

At his age and with his track record, he should be in hot demand from the moment of the announcement of his departure.

[bleachkit]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

I agree that he totally did not sign that contract extension 18 months ago with either Houston or him intending to see him leave the team.  If he is truly making the decision to leave the team, however, then he doesn't get paid.  He only gets paid if the team is willing to pay him.  To be entitled to pay under your contract, you have to be fired without cause or actually working....unless the team is willing to eat the money in order to get rid of you and move on.

Morey's vague "leaving to pursue other opportunities" and "getting to spend more time with family" reads like a termination to me.  That is how you couch the termination of an exec in 99% of cases where the company wants to get rid of them.  

It is also how Morey can play ball to let the NBA save face while still meeting China's demand to get rid of Morey.  Morey gets paid, plays nice hoping for a return after fires have cooled, and the league can say this was all Morey's idea and had nothing to do with that nine figure loss of Chinese revenue.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case but it looks suspiciously like this to me.  As I said, if another team hires him or at least loudly pursues him then that would undercut that theory.  If no other team is aggressively going after a GM with his track record, then I think that tends to support the idea he was forced out due to a broader concern of harm to league by his association.

We obviously wont know, contract details for GMs are much more opaque than for players and coaches, but no way does he steps down if that means he doesn't get paid. Morey had most of the American public firmly in his camp, and the while league doesn't want to upset China, this is not a winning issue for them at home. No way does Morey agree to play nice without substantial compensation. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by bleachkit

[NBASupes]

Update: 

This is back to Minny. 

Minny is talking to teams trying to trade the #1 pick. They are selling the pick with the idea that you can trade for a pseudo superstar rental for the 1st overall pick. They have sold this idea to the Hawks, Knicks, and a number of other teams with whom they value the assets they got. I was told, they want a Dallas/Atlanta deal. top end (3-8) 1st rounder, 2021 top 5 protected pick and that's that but as I keep telling you, NO ONE HAS INTEREST in this type of deal so far. I was told that a contender is interested in drafting LaMelo Ball or James Wiseman 1st overall. Mainly Ball while being able to use that cap to get another key player that's readily available on the market that could help them win games. 

There is not enough interest in the 1st overall pick prospects but there is some in this pseudo superstar who will opt out and test the market when he's a FA. This obviously lower his value and it's why Minny won't do the deal but they want a 3rd team to give them the assets to make it worthwhile for them. They want a key young player but I was told that's off-limits for all of the teams that's been reached. I was told about 5 teams have been reached. ATL, NYK, CHI, CHA, and SAS. I was told GSW was also reached for the similar deal but will have to add a 3rd team that they have major interest in to do the deal while isn't as appealing to GSW.

This would be a major trade as this would get that team the pick and another star while GS is financing it to land the Pseudo-superstar. This is the major hangup for GSW. Minny wants to do this deal. I've heard ATL and SAS have done their homework on the deal. This will cost SAS more asset wise than Atlanta in my viewpoint but MIN wants to trade back and have several guys they are targeting in our range and they want a 2021 1st rounder since they moved their 1st to GSW. 

There is a lot of info that has come out in general and most of it is true. I did get confirmation that Atlanta is looking at both Jones Jr. and KCP as possible signings. 

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

AND BURNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!

Not true.

If we were to get the second trade:

 

Embiid for Capella, Hunter, and JC

 

I think it's a win for both teams.   The gamble is the injury history.  But how else do you get a possible MVP?  They said the same about Steph Curry. 

I believe that you can follow that by bringing back Millsap and drafting Toppin and you have a team that is in the playoffs and competing to possibly the ECF.