Let's Talk Draft Picks

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I mentioned Antonio and you said nobody plays like him in today’s game lol what the.

I had to go back to Denver tape when he was explosive. Mcdyess that I always think about is vet Mcdyess.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Whoa  

He has to hit his swings but he's a special passer and makes the team better like Nash but like Nash, it will take him some time on offense to adjust. Defensively, his adjustment should be much easier than Nash.

[DBac]

Lamelo is too high usage/weak defensively to pair next to Trae I think. Haliburton is the cleaner fit even if his talent level is lower. Want to unlock Trae's catch and shoot goodness, but he's ultimately too weak defensively to return good value in a significantly lesser role.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He has to hit his swings but he's a special passer and makes the team better like Nash but like Nash, it will take him some time on offense to adjust. Defensively, his adjustment should be much easier than Nash.

He's not Nash in any universe.  I don't even think he's a point guard, honestly.

He's not a guy that makes any team better.  He's a guy who makes an already good team better.  Otherwise his weaknesses are exposed to the point where he's unplayable.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I had to go back to Denver tape when he was explosive. Mcdyess that I always think about is vet Mcdyess.

Ok. that’s interesting I always forget vet Dice. I actually try to forget a lotta vets when they become vets and try and remember when they were at their prime for the most part. If I think of Jordan with the Wizards I get depressed and I’m not even a Jordan fan. Nique with the Magic or Spurs that wasn’t Nique that wasn’t even the way he played. 
 

 

[Spud2nique]

19 minutes ago, kg01 said:

unplayable

Whoa  

 

Ok we can’t go from Nash to unplayable. Y’all get in a huddle and figure this out. I’m gonna make a run to sev, anyone need anything? Slurpee? Some Reese’s cups? Starbursts?  

 

ps I did see that one pass Haliburton made to a teammate. I wanna say an off balance left handed swing pass, possible semi or no look for a whammer special, or an emphatic lay in!  

[NBASupes]

46 minutes ago, kg01 said:

He's not Nash in any universe.  I don't even think he's a point guard, honestly.

He's not a guy that makes any team better.  He's a guy who makes an already good team better.  Otherwise his weaknesses are exposed to the point where he's unplayable.

I disagree especially comparing them as Soph offensively. I really don't think people realize how good Haliburton is but to get to the level of Nash will be extremely tough. It was tough for Nash to reach that level. 

Its idiotic if you think he doesn't make players around him better. He's proven that both years in college and at u19s

That's like thinking Josh Smith isn't athletic.

Edited July 13, 2020 by NBASupes

[terrell]

19 hours ago, NBASupes said:

My top 10 at this time, no specific team in mind. 

1. Obi Toppin

2. LaMelo Ball

3. Anthony Edwards

4. Tyrese Haliburton

5. Onyeka Okongwu

6. Killian Hayes

7. James Wiseman

8. Deni Avdija

9. Cole Anthony

10. Issac Okoro

 

Why I like them or don't: 

1. Obi Toppin - Scoring, efficiency, passing, movement, athleticism, skill-level - Don't - Lateral movement on defense, limited post moves, overly aggressive on defense like Bembry which is hit or miss without Bembry tools, Lacks too much defensive tools. 

2. LaMelo Ball - Passing, Playmaking, Touch, Scoring instincts, rebounding, off-ball feel Don't - Defense altogether, mindset, Shooting at this stage, NBA readiness, doesn't play well at other positions other than PG. 

3. Anthony Edwards - Athleticism, size, skill, agility, craft/touch. Don't - Shooting, feel for the game, instincts, winning mindset, anything off the ball or line of action.

4. Tyrese Haliburton - Ability, skill, passing, PnR passing, shooting touch with shooting accuracy. Don't - size, shooting form, ability to draw fouls, lacks the ability to beat people off the dribble nor does he beat people with his handles, does he have the pre-reqs for a starting PG. 

5. Onyeka Okongwu - Feel for the game, stocks, dunks, movement, and shooting touch. Don't - tweener but not a positive one, high-end talent, range, you want to see more projectable things at previous level he didn't show in college but I didn't see anything, passing potential. 

6. Killian Hayes - Passing, skills/polish, BBIQ, off-ball movement, and defensive potential. Don't - handles is average and with his lack of first step does he have the pre-reqs for a starting PG, scoring instincts, speed and quickness. 

7. James Wiseman - Face up potential, athleticism, rebounding, agility, size. Don't - Shooting, passion for the game, mindset, passing, and defense outside of rim protection. 

8. Deni Avdija - Passing, playmaking, 3pt shooting, finisher, potential to defend multiple positions. Don't - FT shooting is horrible but is a good enough 3pt shooter to think he maybe Nick Anderson Jr, doesn't draw fouls much, fouls a lot, and not projected to be a quality scorer. 

9. Cole Anthony - Rebounding, vision - better passer than he showed at UNC, athleticism when healthy, first-step, pull-up shooting. Don't - size, effective scoring, personality hasn't meshed well with everyone, extremely aggressive. 

10. Issac Okoro - Elite Athleticism on both ends, Movement skills, finishing, defensive potential, passing potential. Don't - Shooting, Scoring out of the gate - does have potential due to his tools/first step, offensive unpolished, NBA readiness, rebounding. 

 

Comparisons: 

1. Obi Toppin -

Best - Amar'e offensive blend with Al Horford offensively. Defensively - Dwight Powell

Med - Amar'e offensive blend with Josh Smith offensively. Defensively - Kelly Olynyk

Worst - Kyle Kuzma offensive blend with shades of Amar'e offensively. Defensively - Marquese Criss

7.5/8.5 - 3 swings - Shooting, playmaking, and defensive playmaking. 

2. LaMelo Ball

Best - Trae Young path. Defensively - Michael Carter-Williams (It's likely to peak at this level on average or at best)

Med - What Trae Young was expected as a prospect to be. Defensively - Michael Carter-Williams

Worst - If Trae Young didn't make the adjustments after the first couple of months in the NBA and stayed on that path, aka bustland. Defensively - Michael Carter-Williams as a rookie

6/9 - 2 swings (shooting and finishing just like Trae)

3. Anthony Edwards

Best - What we wanted John Wall offensive impact to be with Victor Oladipo's offensive game. Defensively - What we wanted John Wall to be.

Med - John Wall offensive impact with Victor Oladipo's offensive game. Defensively - John Wall

Worst - John Wall offensive impact as a rookie with Victor Oladipo's offensive game. Defensively - rookie John Wall

6/9 - 2 swings - Shooting and Defensive Impact at a good level

4. Tyrese Haliburton

Best - Offensively Steve Nash - Defensively - Lonzo Ball Lite. 

Med - Shaun Livingston with better PnR passing and more scoring potential. Defensively - Poor man's Lonzo Ball

Worst - post injury Shaun Livingston with better PnR passing, speed and more scoring potential. Defensively - Young Shaun Livingston

7/8 - 2 swings which are elite shooting and excellent ball handling. Remember, it's likely PG's can get a .5 for fit due to teams building around the PG. 

5. Onyeka Okongwu

Best - Antonio McDyess with Derrick Favors blend which will make him exceptionally versatile overall. 

Med - Antonio McDyess

Worst - Shades of Antonio McDyess and Derrick Favors

6. Killian Hayes

Best - Rich man's D'Angelo Russell but where D'Lo has some weaknesses, he's strong but even better than Russell period. 

Med - D'Angelo Russell but where D'Lo has some weaknesses, he's strong but vice versa. 

Worst - Shades of D'Angelo Russell but where D'Lo has some weaknesses, he's strong but vice versa. 

7. James Wiseman

Best - Boogie Cousins overall impact with more defense but less offensive versatility.

Med - Shades of Boogie Cousins overall impact with more defense but less offensive versatility.

Worst - Rookie Boogie Cousins overall impact with more defense but less offensive versatility.

8. Deni Avdija

Best - Danilo Galinari impact. 

Med - Toni Kukoc impact

Worst - Young Toni Kukoc like impact

9. Cole Anthony - Health risk* like Cam Reddish last year, is a lot better than he played as a FR. 

Best - Baron Davis impact. 

Med - Young Baron Davis impact as a vet Baron Davis lite

Worst - Dennis Smith Jr. like impact but better

10. Issac Okoro

Best - Jimmy Butler type  

Med - Young Jimmy Butler type as a vet Jimmy Butler lite

Worst - Torrey Craig but superior talent and athlete overall but worse player right now. 

 

Why Obi at #1? The best player in the draft. I believe his offense will be that special. 

Who are you highest on personally? Haliburton and Toppin. 

Steve Nash/Haliburton, why? They play a lot alike. People really don't realize it. Haliburton obviously has to vastly improve his shooting (elite) and handle (excellent) to earn that honor as a pro which is why it's his best. They are floor generals, make everyone better, high BBIQ passers and basketball savants. 

Ball or Haliburton, who you got? It's hard to say. On average, I'll take Haliburton. He fits everything even if it's at a role player level at best. Ball like Trae is boom or bust. You gotta build it around them but Ball has a much higher ceiling. He's a more sure thing long term but there is not guarantee he will get there. Remember, Marbury was a more sure thing long term over Nash in 1996. 

Okoro at #10, aren't you high on Okoro? Long term, yes! Short term, no. He's limited on offense. He's not even as good or close to rookie Jimmy Butler on that end while being equal on defense to rookie Jimmy which is insane at 19 yr. His ceiling is off the charts. I think he's a year away honestly but as Atlanta has proved with Trae and Cam, they can speed up the process with their player development program and the fact that Okoro will be more in the 9th-14th man roles will be helpful as he's not going to be pushed into the action which Atlanta can provide. 

Cole Anthony at #9, why? I think he's a NBA ready player right now. More than Ball and as ready as Haliburton. Pre-reqs- check. Shooting - check. Passing out of the PnR - check. If the passing out of the PnR doesn't appear nor does his athletic springs from HS, he could be in some trouble but I believe it will. He was never healthy at UNC except for the ND game. Like Cam Reddish, he needs to be seen from all levels. Just looking at his college tape won't do him justice. 

Wiseman, why you always down on my man? Because he's not going to be a winner to me. His talent is special as is his size but guys like him with severe mindset issues at the 5 just don't really help you win games in the NBA. He's a faceup guy, that's dead for winning teams, I just don't see it. He's an empty stats guy. I honestly think Wiseman/Okongwu is the Cousins/Favors of this gen. It's the same types of players. Okongwu is just better than Favors with less size and Cousins is more talented than Wiseman with somehow an even worse mindset. 

Can Hayes/Russell work together? I think so, they play alike but it's different. Hayes is a better naturally passing, especially out of the PnR. He's more of an off ball player as well, he doesn't have Russell natural scoring feel. He defends better and has better mental temperament. Both can shoot it and similar sized. They will fit a lot better naturally than Dinwiddle and Russell to me and much better than Russell/Okogie. I think it would be the best pick for MIN. 

So the only thing you dont like about Deni is his FT shooting..NIce..lol. IM fine with Deni, Obi, Edwards, Wiseman, or OKoro tbh..Wont lose any sleep with Haliburton or Hayes either. Im not a fan of Anthony..

[kg01]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I disagree especially comparing them as Soph offensively. I really don't think people realize how good Haliburton is but to get to the level of Nash will be extremely tough. It was tough for Nash to reach that level. 

Its idiotic if you think he doesn't make players around him better. He's proven that both years in college and at u19s

That's like thinking Josh Smith isn't athletic.

He's an ultimate glue guy but he has weaknesses that will be exposed if not surrounded by an already good team.

If a bad team gets him, the first part of his career will be wasted.  Then a playoff team will get him for cheap and will be able to use him.

He'd help us but not to the degree you'd want a top5 pick to.

[JayBirdHawk]

14 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Whoa  

 

Ok we can’t go from Nash to unplayable. Y’all get in a huddle and figure this out. I’m gonna make a run to sev, anyone need anything? Slurpee? Some Reese’s cups? Starbursts?  

 

ps I did see that one pass Haliburton made to a teammate. I wanna say an off balance left handed swing pass, possible semi or no look for a whammer special, or an emphatic lay in!  

.....yeah there has to be some inbetween there.

From Nash.............to unplayable. That's a mighty big gap.  These pospects are being picked apart or propped up to low or too high. WE HAVE TOO MUCH TIME ON OUR HANDS! Lol.

Wasn't Hali @kg01 fave 2 months ago?

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Quote

6. Atlanta Hawks

Isaac Okoro | 6-6 wing | 19 years old, freshman | Auburn

I’ve had the Hawks going with Okoro in previous mocks, and the board fell here to where it made sense again. The Hawks should be looking for the best available two-way option that doesn’t play the center or point guard position. Okoro fits that mold. Coaches in the SEC rave about what Okoro brought to the table from an intangibles perspective. The difference in team quality for Auburn when he was out of the lineup and injured versus when he was in was very real. He does everything teams look for from a modern wing outside of shoot it. His frame is terrific at 6-foot-6 with a 6-9 wingspan. He legitimately can defend one through four due to his mix of lateral quickness and power. His on-ball prowess is superb due to his motor and effort level, and then his ability to wreak havoc off-ball is terrific due to his high-level basketball IQ. That feel also extends offensively, where Okoro is a smart cutter, efficient driver, and smart playmaker when opportunities present themselves. He needs to keep working on his craft as a ballhandler, but his potential is real.

Ultimately though, a lot hinges on the shot being passable when he’s open. I’m not a huge fan of the mechanics at the top, as he has a pretty real hitch he has to work through. This is likely going to be a multi-year process. But in that vein, you’re betting on the human being involved here, and Okoro gets strong marks for being considered an extremely hard worker and a high-character kid. Still, this is a risk, for sure. If he doesn’t shoot it, it’s going to be much more difficult for him to make a high-level offensive impact. In Atlanta particularly, he would have a bit more freedom as a non-shooter in lineups with Trae Young, John Collins, Cam Reddish and Kevin Huerter. But the offense would likely struggle a bit more in lineups with Clint Capela on the floor. There would also be a bit of overlap with De’Andre Hunter, the team’s No. 4 overall pick last year. But Okoro is a much different defender than Hunter. Whereas Hunter is better on-ball and gets by via innate understanding of angles and using his length, Okoro is more of a pure athlete with high-level off-ball prowess. I think the duo would complement each other well on that end. The same could be said for Okoro and Reddish. And obviously, having another option to unleash on guards to help out Huerter and Young would be a tremendous help.

 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

You and @kg01’s boys..and mine.  

[Gray Mule]

I want, #2 PG behind Trae, Tyrese Haliburton.  

[Gray Mule]

Why?  Because he's good!  He has a very high basketball IQ.  And, he can make his free throws!  We need him.  Just think of what a nice 2nd string the Hawks are building and he fits right in...

Make it happen Travis!!

[JayBirdHawk]

WHO THE HAWKS SHOULD NOT DRAFT!

 

Quote

James Wiseman, C, Memphis 

Before the Hawks traded for Capela at the deadline, Wiseman would have made a lot of sense at the top of the draft for Atlanta. But because Capela is under contract until 2023, it doesn’t make much sense to use a top pick on someone who can also only play one position. 

Wasserman’s take: “I don’t recommend any team taking Wiseman top five, to be honest. I have him graded as a late lottery guy.  “I don’t buy his shooting range. He’s a non-passer. He’s not a guy who can switch around the perimeter and can only play center. 

 

Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C, USC

Okongwu is someone who I listed as a prospect who makes sense for the Hawks, but there are certainly questions about the fit.....Okongwu’s skill set does make him more of an intriguing prospect for the Hawks to consider because he handles the ball like a wing, is terrific defensively and can guard out to the perimeter, plus he has the long-term potential to space the floor. 

Wasserman’s take: “I am going to contradict myself here and say if Capela is going to start, Okongwu would be a perfect sixth man. I know it seems like a reach to draft a sixth man guy that high, but I think you can bank on his defensive activity around the basket working in a sixth-man role, at the least. 

 

Obi Toppin, PF, Dayton  

If the Hawks didn’t have someone like Collins on the roster, Toppin would make sense because he’s probably the best offensive player in the draft. 

If the Hawks have long-term concerns about Collins’ fit on the roster, which could give them pause in giving him a potential $100 million contract, drafting someone like Toppin should be avoided because the similarities between players are readily apparent. 

Wasserman’s take: “The comparison I use for Obi is John Collins. There are obviously some differences. Collins is a better rebounder. Toppin is a better passer. They are kind of the same mold of big man. They are going to be productive and efficient, but their defensive question marks kind of cast a cloud over their offensive production. 

 

Kira Lewis Jr., PG, Alabama and Cole Anthony, PG, North Carolina 

Lewis is a pure point guard. I can’t see him playing the two in the NBA because of his size.  Anthony would be an undersized shooting guard in the NBA, but scouts believe he would be able to guard twos in the league. The problem, however, is you need to pair Young with someone who is longer and someone who has the potential to develop into an elite-level defender. 

Wasserman’s take: “I don’t think they can draft Kira Lewis; however, I am optimistic in Cole Anthony’s potential to play some two-guard. I

 

LaMelo Ball, PG, Illawarra Hawks 

I don’t think the Hawks should draft Ball because of the fit concerns with Young. You wouldn’t be maximizing their best skills if they were on the floor together.

Wasserman’s take: “It’s a tough call because I have LaMelo No. 1. You put him in Atlanta, and suddenly you’re playing him away from his strengths because Trae is just too good. At the same time, Trae is a really good spot-up shooter and can make shots off screens.

 

[kg01]

27 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If the Hawks have long-term concerns about Collins’ fit on the roster, which could give them pause in giving him a potential $100 million contract, drafting someone like Toppin should be avoided because the similarities between players are readily apparent

THANK YOU!!!!!

YOU CAN'T DISLIKE COLLINS AND LIKE TOPPIN!

THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE!!

WHY ... am I yelling?

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

THANK YOU!!!!!

YOU CAN'T DISLIKE COLLINS AND LIKE TOPPIN!

THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE!!

WHY ... am I yelling?

Are you feeling like you aren’t being heard perhaps .

 

I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR. OH, THIS WAS FOR SUPES.. MY BAD..

[Spud2nique]

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Wasserman’s take: “I am going to contradict myself here and say if Capela is going to start, Okongwu would be a perfect sixth man. I know it seems like a reach to draft a sixth man guy that high, but I think you can bank on his defensive activity around the basket working in a sixth-man role, at the least. 

Yes sir! This kid is gonna be good. Bank on it. At the very least a 6th man.

[NBASupes]

14 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Yes sir! This kid is gonna be good. Bank on it. At the very least a 6th man.

He will be worth the pick for this draft. Now he might not be a world beater but he will be worth the pick. You could draft some of these guys and they won't be worth it. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

6. Atlanta Hawks – Isaac Okoro (G/F, Auburn)

Okoro is a local Atlanta product and he does a lot of things well. The Hawks spent two lottery picks on a pair of two-way forwards in 2019 and, in Okoro, they’d be following that model again to some degree. He is a bulky, physically gifted standout on the defensive end, with top-shelf athleticism and power leading to many saying Okoro is the best one-on-one defensive prospect in the class. Offensively, he has a defined weaknesses in perimeter shooting but, from there, Okoro brings more on-ball appeal than one might think, showcasing intriguing play-making skills and a high-level knowledge of the game.