Let's Talk Draft Picks

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Agree that a "no Euro" or other foreign local would be a sign a rotten approach to the draft.  That said, I can understand certain "biases" or "risk tolerance" or views on how other GMs tap into geographic regions (i.e., if you believe that other GMs are putting too much or too little emphasis on certain regions that would affect your view of  that would lead to a GM weighting talent in different markets differently (due to developmental systems, level of competition, amount of available tape, etc.).  That could result in some GMs ending up with more or fewer players from a particular region.  It may be that TS feels like he can get a better read of NCAA talent given his knowledge about the level of competition, etc.  Or maybe he just wanted Trae and a pick over Luka.

I know Schlenk is big on the pre draft work outs. That's where he has zeroed on his guys previously. If I'm not mistaken Luka didn't do much pre draft stuff. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[kg01]

@Spud2nique, heard a new comp for your Antman guy: Dion Waiters.

Yikes

[kg01]

Otoh, I heard some positives on your Precious.  Shld be a high level defender ... as long as you can convince him he's not a wang.

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, kg01 said:

@Spud2nique, heard a new comp for your Antman guy: Dion Waiters.

Yikes

No. Just no. I’m not saying I’m as high in Edwards as Zion no way near. Zion is like a Lebron, Jordan type but don’t sleep in Edwards. Again though he might be a guy that’s better off in Detroit or NY just to go nuts and collect stats but might not be a winning player like a Trae but we shall see.

[Spud2nique]

6 hours ago, kg01 said:

your Precious

Oh hell no not mine. I don’t really like many. Gwu would make me . Later perhaps Vassell, Siddiq Bey or Paul Reed at the right price. Other than that, Edwards with the first overall and add quality vets.

[mrhonline]

Edwards is not ready to guard next to Trae and won't be for quite a while. That doesn't mean he'd be the wrong pick, but it would be foolish for the Hawks to not weigh that heavily into their decision.

[kg01]

9 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

No. Just no. I’m not saying I’m as high in Edwards as Zion no way near. Zion is like a Lebron, Jordan type but don’t sleep in Edwards. Again though he might be a guy that’s better off in Detroit or NY just to go nuts and collect stats but might not be a winning player like a Trae but we shall see.

Funny thing is, here would be the best fit for Edwards.  But it wouldn't be the best fit for the Hawks.

He needs a place where he wouldnt be a focal point.  If he was, his suspect ballhandling would be a problem.

[macdaddy]

26 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Funny thing is, here would be the best fit for Edwards.  But it wouldn't be the best fit for the Hawks.

He needs a place where he wouldnt be a focal point.  If he was, his suspect ballhandling would be a problem.

No doubt.  he's the perfect fit because he can be a sniper off the bench at first.  then we have an embarrassment of riches and can make a contender deal in a couple years.

[kg01]

54 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No doubt.  he's the perfect fit because he can be a sniper off the bench at first.  then we have an embarrassment of riches and can make a contender deal in a couple years.

That's assuming he figures out how to play basketball.  That's where I have my extreme doubts.

[terrell]

11 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

No. Just no. I’m not saying I’m as high in Edwards as Zion no way near. Zion is like a Lebron, Jordan type but don’t sleep in Edwards. Again though he might be a guy that’s better off in Detroit or NY just to go nuts and collect stats but might not be a winning player like a Trae but we shall see.

Who knows if Trae is a winning player or not... He doesnt have the vets to win much yet..Winning players show up in the 4th qtr, and hes been one of the best in crunch time so far..IM iffy on Edwards. I like Cam better.. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Funny thing is, here would be the best fit for Edwards.  But it wouldn't be the best fit for the Hawks.

Therein lies the problem. If he goes to the Pistons or Knicks he becomes Iverson. If he comes to us, could he be Manu Ginobili? I agree I have hesitations in him coming over and dominating the ball and taking us away from a team concept. I’m with you in that but at the same time I can’t deny the talent. Kid is a beast.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I said I wanted a Magic/Zeke backcourt by drafting Lamelo and people say it can’t work. I don’t get why not if they can learn to move without the ball. I realize both need the ball in their hands but the passing would be off the charts.

[NBASupes]

12 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I said I wanted a Magic/Zeke backcourt by drafting Lamelo and people say it can’t work. I don’t get why not if they can learn to move without the ball. I realize both need the ball in their hands but the passing would be off the charts.

It's a skill in the NBA. Off ball movement isn't like the Y movement. You really gotta have a sense of what's going on around you, stamina, the ability to cut while taking contact at this level, and it takes away from your on ball play. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

My top 10 at this time, no specific team in mind. 

1. Obi Toppin

2. LaMelo Ball

3. Anthony Edwards

4. Tyrese Haliburton

5. Onyeka Okongwu

6. Killian Hayes

7. James Wiseman

8. Deni Avdija

9. Cole Anthony

10. Issac Okoro

 

Why I like them or don't: 

1. Obi Toppin - Scoring, efficiency, passing, movement, athleticism, skill-level - Don't - Lateral movement on defense, limited post moves, overly aggressive on defense like Bembry which is hit or miss without Bembry tools, Lacks too much defensive tools. 

2. LaMelo Ball - Passing, Playmaking, Touch, Scoring instincts, rebounding, off-ball feel Don't - Defense altogether, mindset, Shooting at this stage, NBA readiness, doesn't play well at other positions other than PG. 

3. Anthony Edwards - Athleticism, size, skill, agility, craft/touch. Don't - Shooting, feel for the game, instincts, winning mindset, anything off the ball or line of action.

4. Tyrese Haliburton - Ability, skill, passing, PnR passing, shooting touch with shooting accuracy. Don't - size, shooting form, ability to draw fouls, lacks the ability to beat people off the dribble nor does he beat people with his handles, does he have the pre-reqs for a starting PG. 

5. Onyeka Okongwu - Feel for the game, stocks, dunks, movement, and shooting touch. Don't - tweener but not a positive one, high-end talent, range, you want to see more projectable things at previous level he didn't show in college but I didn't see anything, passing potential. 

6. Killian Hayes - Passing, skills/polish, BBIQ, off-ball movement, and defensive potential. Don't - handles is average and with his lack of first step does he have the pre-reqs for a starting PG, scoring instincts, speed and quickness. 

7. James Wiseman - Face up potential, athleticism, rebounding, agility, size. Don't - Shooting, passion for the game, mindset, passing, and defense outside of rim protection. 

8. Deni Avdija - Passing, playmaking, 3pt shooting, finisher, potential to defend multiple positions. Don't - FT shooting is horrible but is a good enough 3pt shooter to think he maybe Nick Anderson Jr, doesn't draw fouls much, fouls a lot, and not projected to be a quality scorer. 

9. Cole Anthony - Rebounding, vision - better passer than he showed at UNC, athleticism when healthy, first-step, pull-up shooting. Don't - size, effective scoring, personality hasn't meshed well with everyone, extremely aggressive. 

10. Issac Okoro - Elite Athleticism on both ends, Movement skills, finishing, defensive potential, passing potential. Don't - Shooting, Scoring out of the gate - does have potential due to his tools/first step, offensive unpolished, NBA readiness, rebounding. 

 

Comparisons: 

1. Obi Toppin -

Best - Amar'e offensive blend with Al Horford offensively. Defensively - Dwight Powell

Med - Amar'e offensive blend with Josh Smith offensively. Defensively - Kelly Olynyk

Worst - Kyle Kuzma offensive blend with shades of Amar'e offensively. Defensively - Marquese Criss

7.5/8.5 - 3 swings - Shooting, playmaking, and defensive playmaking. 

2. LaMelo Ball

Best - Trae Young path. Defensively - Michael Carter-Williams (It's likely to peak at this level on average or at best)

Med - What Trae Young was expected as a prospect to be. Defensively - Michael Carter-Williams

Worst - If Trae Young didn't make the adjustments after the first couple of months in the NBA and stayed on that path, aka bustland. Defensively - Michael Carter-Williams as a rookie

6/9 - 2 swings (shooting and finishing just like Trae)

3. Anthony Edwards

Best - What we wanted John Wall offensive impact to be with Victor Oladipo's offensive game. Defensively - What we wanted John Wall to be.

Med - John Wall offensive impact with Victor Oladipo's offensive game. Defensively - John Wall

Worst - John Wall offensive impact as a rookie with Victor Oladipo's offensive game. Defensively - rookie John Wall

6/9 - 2 swings - Shooting and Defensive Impact at a good level

4. Tyrese Haliburton

Best - Offensively Steve Nash - Defensively - Lonzo Ball Lite. 

Med - Shaun Livingston with better PnR passing and more scoring potential. Defensively - Poor man's Lonzo Ball

Worst - post injury Shaun Livingston with better PnR passing, speed and more scoring potential. Defensively - Young Shaun Livingston

7/8 - 2 swings which are elite shooting and excellent ball handling. Remember, it's likely PG's can get a .5 for fit due to teams building around the PG. 

5. Onyeka Okongwu

Best - Antonio McDyess with Derrick Favors blend which will make him exceptionally versatile overall. 

Med - Antonio McDyess

Worst - Shades of Antonio McDyess and Derrick Favors

6. Killian Hayes

Best - Rich man's D'Angelo Russell but where D'Lo has some weaknesses, he's strong but even better than Russell period. 

Med - D'Angelo Russell but where D'Lo has some weaknesses, he's strong but vice versa. 

Worst - Shades of D'Angelo Russell but where D'Lo has some weaknesses, he's strong but vice versa. 

7. James Wiseman

Best - Boogie Cousins overall impact with more defense but less offensive versatility.

Med - Shades of Boogie Cousins overall impact with more defense but less offensive versatility.

Worst - Rookie Boogie Cousins overall impact with more defense but less offensive versatility.

8. Deni Avdija

Best - Danilo Galinari impact. 

Med - Toni Kukoc impact

Worst - Young Toni Kukoc like impact

9. Cole Anthony - Health risk* like Cam Reddish last year, is a lot better than he played as a FR. 

Best - Baron Davis impact. 

Med - Young Baron Davis impact as a vet Baron Davis lite

Worst - Dennis Smith Jr. like impact but better

10. Issac Okoro

Best - Jimmy Butler type  

Med - Young Jimmy Butler type as a vet Jimmy Butler lite

Worst - Torrey Craig but superior talent and athlete overall but worse player right now. 

 

Why Obi at #1? The best player in the draft. I believe his offense will be that special. 

Who are you highest on personally? Haliburton and Toppin. 

Steve Nash/Haliburton, why? They play a lot alike. People really don't realize it. Haliburton obviously has to vastly improve his shooting (elite) and handle (excellent) to earn that honor as a pro which is why it's his best. They are floor generals, make everyone better, high BBIQ passers and basketball savants. 

Ball or Haliburton, who you got? It's hard to say. On average, I'll take Haliburton. He fits everything even if it's at a role player level at best. Ball like Trae is boom or bust. You gotta build it around them but Ball has a much higher ceiling. He's a more sure thing long term but there is not guarantee he will get there. Remember, Marbury was a more sure thing long term over Nash in 1996. 

Okoro at #10, aren't you high on Okoro? Long term, yes! Short term, no. He's limited on offense. He's not even as good or close to rookie Jimmy Butler on that end while being equal on defense to rookie Jimmy which is insane at 19 yr. His ceiling is off the charts. I think he's a year away honestly but as Atlanta has proved with Trae and Cam, they can speed up the process with their player development program and the fact that Okoro will be more in the 9th-14th man roles will be helpful as he's not going to be pushed into the action which Atlanta can provide. 

Cole Anthony at #9, why? I think he's a NBA ready player right now. More than Ball and as ready as Haliburton. Pre-reqs- check. Shooting - check. Passing out of the PnR - check. If the passing out of the PnR doesn't appear nor does his athletic springs from HS, he could be in some trouble but I believe it will. He was never healthy at UNC except for the ND game. Like Cam Reddish, he needs to be seen from all levels. Just looking at his college tape won't do him justice. 

Wiseman, why you always down on my man? Because he's not going to be a winner to me. His talent is special as is his size but guys like him with severe mindset issues at the 5 just don't really help you win games in the NBA. He's a faceup guy, that's dead for winning teams, I just don't see it. He's an empty stats guy. I honestly think Wiseman/Okongwu is the Cousins/Favors of this gen. It's the same types of players. Okongwu is just better than Favors with less size and Cousins is more talented than Wiseman with somehow an even worse mindset. 

Can Hayes/Russell work together? I think so, they play alike but it's different. Hayes is a better naturally passing, especially out of the PnR. He's more of an off ball player as well, he doesn't have Russell natural scoring feel. He defends better and has better mental temperament. Both can shoot it and similar sized. They will fit a lot better naturally than Dinwiddle and Russell to me and much better than Russell/Okogie. I think it would be the best pick for MIN. 

[NBASupes]

Forgot to add: 

Grades: 

5. Onyeka Okongwu - 7/8 - 2 swings (Shooting and playmaking)

6. Killian Hayes - 7.5/8 - 2 swings (Elite shooting and defensive impact)

7. James Wiseman - 5.5/9 - 2 swings (shooting and defensive impact)

8. Deni Avdija - 7/8 - 2 swings (elite 3pt shooting and defensive impact) 

9. Cole Anthony - 7/8.5 - 2 swings (Elite playmaking and elite shooting)

10. Issac Okoro - 5.5/8.5 - 2 swings (Shooting and Offensive Impact at good levels)

[JTB]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's a skill in the NBA. Off ball movement isn't like the Y movement. You really gotta have a sense of what's going on around you, stamina, the ability to cut while taking contact at this level, and it takes away from your on ball play. 

Does this mean you’re against adding LaMelo with trae in the backcourt?

[Spud2nique]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

4. Tyrese Haliburton

Best - Offensively Steve Nash

Whoa  

[Spud2nique]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

5. Onyeka Okongwu

Best - Antonio McDyess with Derrick Favors blend which will make him exceptionally versatile overall. 

Med - Antonio McDyess

I mentioned Antonio and you said nobody plays like him in today’s game lol what the.