Let's Talk Draft Picks

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Toppin fell out? 

Toppin was already gone by his post. 

 

Quote

Let's say Hawks are picking 5th and Edwards, Ball, Wiseman and Toppin are off the board

 

[bleachkit]

@NBASupes here are some more detailed numbers and scouting on Okoro

https://stats.nba.com/articles/2020-nba-draft-profile-isaac-okoro/

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/17/isaac-okoro-scouting-report-2/

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

@NBASupes here are some more detailed numbers and scouting on Okoro

https://stats.nba.com/articles/2020-nba-draft-profile-isaac-okoro/

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/17/isaac-okoro-scouting-report-2/

This is what really frightens me about taking Okoro:

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is what really frightens me about taking Okoro:

LOL, a non-shooter. I will say he has good footwork and his shot is not broken but he got a lot of prospect Cam Reddish going on with shooting wonkiness without a being a sharp that Cam is. He's going to take awhile. I don't care what anyone says. I really think he's a year away on offense to me. He just doesn't have the level of shooting needed for a NBA wing. What he does have is he's a good player and talented with a great body and athleticism. This would work so much better in 2004 draft than in 2020. Shooting is literally the most important skill. If you got the wonkiness of prospect Cam with the shooting of prospect Prince. It's gonna take awhile. I think he will be a 10th man on an average bench. Unplayable on a great one. 7th man on awful one like ours last year. 

https://theathletic.com/1991892/2020/08/14/2020-nba-draft-college-coaches-poll-should-isaac-okoro-be-the-top-wing/

My personal big board: 10th overall

My personal Hawks BB: 3rd overall

Hawks draft BB: 5th overall 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[bleachkit]

@NBASupes @AHF

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/07/08/2020-nba-draft-prospect-isaac-okoro-is-one-tool-away-from-greatness/#4b5d21964859

Last season, Okoro shot just 29 percent from the outside and 67.2 percent from the line. It gets even worse when you dive further into it, as Okoro was only in the 36th percentile in all of college basketball in unguarded catch-and-shoot situations. When guarded, he was in the first percentile. Yeah, you read that correctly.

Okoro basically cant hit contested perimeter shots, and might never be able to. 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LOL, a non-shooter. I will say he has good footwork and his shot is not broken but he got a lot of prospect Cam Reddish going on with shooting wonkiness without a being a sharp that Cam is. He's going to take awhile. I don't care what anyone says. I really think he's a year away on offense to me. He just doesn't have the level of shooting needed for a NBA wing. What he does have is he's a good player and talented with a great body and athleticism. This would work so much better in 2004 draft than in 2020. Shooting is literally the most important skill. If you got the wonkiness of prospect Cam with the shooting of prospect Prince. It's gonna take awhile. I think he will be a 10th man on an average bench. Unplayable on a great one. 7th man on awful one like ours last year. 

https://theathletic.com/1991892/2020/08/14/2020-nba-draft-college-coaches-poll-should-isaac-okoro-be-the-top-wing/

My personal big board: 10th overall

My personal Hawks BB: 3rd overall

Hawks draft BB: 5th overall 

 

If he is only a year away on offense, that should boost his prospects.  That seems like a best case scenario and if you knew he could get there in a year it would make me much more comfortable with taking him.

[NBASupes]

Just now, bleachkit said:

@NBASupes @AHF

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/07/08/2020-nba-draft-prospect-isaac-okoro-is-one-tool-away-from-greatness/#4b5d21964859

Last season, Okoro shot just 29 percent from the outside and 67.2 percent from the line. It gets even worse when you dive further into it, as Okoro was only in the 36th percentile in all of college basketball in unguarded catch-and-shoot situations. When guarded, he was in the first percentile. Yeah, you read that correctly.

Okoro basically cant hit contested perimeter shots, and might never be able to. 

Stop it! Let's not get absolutes with any prospect at this stage of their careers as it could be noise. But 1% in contested C&S, how many did he take and since he has that prospect Cam Reddish wonkiness going on, I am not surprised. Cam also struggled greatly with contested C&S as well as a prospect. Abit, never that bad. 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

If he is only a ye away on offense, that should boost his prospects.  That seems like a best case scenario and if you knew he could get there in a year it would make me much more comfortable with taking him.

Whoa, by year away, I mean a year away from being able to produce. Not a year away from reaching his offensive ceiling. I think he's a 2 year project if developed correctly. His ceiling is high because of his movement ability, BBIQ, intangibles, simply passing ability, first step for his size, and his strength. I keep saying this but he really reminds me of Iggy. Not quite the on ball player as a prospect but more movement ability. 

 

Jimmy Butler is a popular comparison because defensively, as prospects, their mirror images. As athletes as well not to mention size and strength but Okoro is younger. But honestly, he doesn't shoot the ball anywhere near as good as Jimmy and he's not the playmaker Jimmy was as a prospect. What Okoro has over all both of them is movement ability. He can move his ass off. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Cam also struggled greatly with contested C&S as well as a prospect. Abit, never that bad. 

To me, Cam was always a very unusual case in terms of his role being limited on the team and him being injured for almost the entire season.  Coming to a team where he would be allowed to do more and where he could get healthy gave me lots of hope for upside.  When we got Cam, I was not going to be surprised if he struggled out of the gate but felt like the big upside was there - including for being a plus shooter from range.  Okoro just scares me. that he will not develop long-term and will be unplayable.  If we draft him, I'll root like hell for him to come along and he wouldn't be the first player to do it but it is a scary profile to me when he didn't even try to shoot more than 3 feet from the basket.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Whoa, by year away, I mean a year away from being able to produce. Not a year away from reaching his offensive ceiling. I think he's a 2 year project if developed correctly. His ceiling is high because of his movement ability, BBIQ, intangibles, simply passing ability, first step for his size, and his strength. I keep saying this but he really reminds me of Iggy. Not quite the on ball player as a prospect but more movement ability. 

No - I'm on board with that.  If he could be guaranteed to be productive on offense after only 1 year that would hugely enhance him as a prospect for me.  I'm worried that he could be Bembry2.0 (i.e., useful defender whose inability to shoot renders him a limited role player).

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Stop it! Let's not get absolutes with any prospect at this stage of their careers as it could be noise. But 1% in contested C&S, how many did he take and since he has that prospect Cam Reddish wonkiness going on, I am not surprised. Cam also struggled greatly with contested C&S as well as a prospect. Abit, never that bad. 

Cam has a very nice natural looking stroke that suggests it will come around. But there ain't much S in Okoro's DPS. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

To me, Cam was always a very unusual case in terms of his role being limited on the team and him being injured for almost the entire season.  Coming to a team where he would be allowed to do more and where he could get healthy gave me lots of hope for upside.  When we got Cam, I was not going to be surprised if he struggled out of the gate but felt like the big upside was there - including for being a plus shooter from range.  Okoro just scares me. that he will not develop long-term and will be unplayable.  If we draft him, I'll root like hell for him to come along and he wouldn't be the first player to do it but it is a scary profile to me when he didn't even try to shoot more than 3 feet from the basket.

I guess I am not as scared because of his movement, athleticism, size, strength, defensive versatility, passing abilities, first step, straight line dribble drive, and finishing ability. I wasn't going this say this because, he does have a better natural form but Bembry might have been just as good of a shooter as a prospect as Isaac. This will scare Hawks fans because we all know Bembry is known for being a can't shoot guy in the NBA. I just have to say, this kid can move and he's not poorly framed for this style of play like Culver is in MIN either. 

I see the issues. I do. I am not a believer he will shoot mid-range shots in his career but with his finishing ability, movement, and straight-line dribble-drive. I think he can create space even without it. I honestly like him better with someone like Trae because if you are always moving, Trae will always catch you but he gotta do something with that jumper. At least get it to a reasonable level. 

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Cam has a very nice natural looking stroke that suggests it will come around. But there ain't much S in Okoro's DPS. 

Cam is a natural sharp. 

Okoro is not a PDS player. He is a movement specialist with a great frame, first step for his size, motor, straight-line ball handling and an excellent perimeter defensive prospect. His jump shot is his hindrance at this time. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[bleachkit]

Question, are there any successful (meaning solid career) NBA role playing wing defenders that just flat out cant shoot? I'm honestly drawing a blank. 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Question, are there any successful (meaning solid career) NBA role playing wing defenders that just flat out cant shoot? I'm honestly drawing a blank. 

Tony Allen?

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Question, are there any successful (meaning solid career) NBA role playing wing defenders that just flat out cant shoot? I'm honestly drawing a blank. 

If shooting never comes around. I am not sure. Scottie Pippen is an example of a player where he was a shit shooter for almost six seasons and it finally came around. 

Shooting usually comes around for the ones who can score without shooting. It's the ones who can't where shooting never comes around because they can't buy space otherwise. Jimmy Butler is currently averaging 20ppg shooting 24% from three. 

I think you gotta be able to score without shooting otherwise, you will end up like MKG who was also hurt by injuries. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by NBASupes

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Tony Allen?

Bruce Bowen is another who leaps out at me, although he did eventually learn to hit a wide open 3 so maybe he doesn't qualify.

Marcus Smart might fit the same profile as Bowen.

[NBASupes]

Just now, AHF said:

Bruce Bowen is another who leaps out at me, although he did eventually learn to hit a wide open 3 so maybe he doesn't qualify.

Marcus Smart might fit the same profile as Bowen.

He's able to shoot now. 

[NBASupes]

The one positive is Okoro's FT shooting is typical freshman bad. It's not, terrible shooter bad like Josh Jackson and Bembry as a freshman. It's going to be fun developing this kid. He is so advanced in a number of ways compared to the average freshman NBA prospect and so raw in areas where most kids have a level of advancement. Skill development will be key with this one.  

[AHF]

22 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's able to shoot now. 

Eh.  37.5% fg% overall.  26.7% on 2’s 16’’ and out and 34.7% on 3’s.  
 

Still a liability with his jumper and still not nearly as good as Bowen shooting the 3.  But his improvement is why I said he probably belongs in the same box as Bowen.