2020-21 The Current Ask Supes

[RandomFan]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yuuuuuck!!!!

Trade for Aaron Gordon and in a years time we'll be having this same discussion wether to trade him or pay him, same with Smart since they are both on 1 year deals.

The reason the Capela trade made so much sense is because he had 3 years left on his deals. Trading for guys on 1 year deals for a team hoping, just hoping to make the playoffs coming out of a rebuild is a NO NO.

Yeah,  but it wouldn't be a discussion. You pay them, no question. Because they are perfect fits on a championship team around Trae and Hunter. 

Gordon is just better than JC, sorry but true. And he a much better fit for our current team. The reason we aren't willing to pay JC the max is because of his December limitations. Don't have that problem with Gordon.

Smart might not be better than Bogie in a vacuum, but he's a much better fit next to Trae.

Edited March 24, 2021 by RandomFan

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, RandomFan said:

Yeah,  but it wouldn't be a discussion. You pay them, no question. Because they are perfect fits on a championship team around Trae and Hunter. 

Gordon is just better than JC, sorry but true. And he a much better fit for our current team. 

Smart might not be better than Bogie in a vacuum, but he's a much better fit next to Trae.

Aaron Gordon has been the same player he has been for the last few years, and no he isn't better than JC.

[Spud2nique]

Collins will stay!  

[RandomFan]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Aaron Gordon has been the same player he has been for the last few years, and no he isn't better than JC.

Zero doubt in my mind that Gordon is better than JC. Can defend more positions on the floor,  and better. Is a better team defender and help defender. If just as athletic, maybe more. Can shoot 40% from 3. Is a better passer. Offensive stats are stunted because he plays with trash PGs. 

The only area JC is better is at setting and slipping screens.

Edited March 24, 2021 by RandomFan

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Zero doubt in my mind that Gordon is better than JC. Can defend more positions on the floor,  and better. Is a better team defender and help defender. If just as athletic, maybe more. Can shoot 40% from 3. Is a better passer. Offensive stats are stunted because he plays with trash PGs. 

The only area JC is better is at setting and slipping screens.

We'll agree to disagree.

[kg01]

There's a reason Gordon has been on the trade block since a nano-second after signing his current deal.  And that reason is not because he's better than Con Jollins.

Honestly, if he was as good as you're describing, ORL would be better than scratching and clawing at the 8-seed multiple years.  Perhaps even more telling is the fact that they're pretty much the same team whether he plays or not.

[RandomFan]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

There's a reason Gordon has been on the trade block since a nano-second after signing his current deal.  And that reason is not because he's better than Con Jollins.

Honestly, if he was as good as you're describing, ORL would be better than scratching and clawing at the 8-seed multiple years.  Perhaps even more telling is the fact that they're pretty much the same team whether he plays or not.

Teams have wanted him since he signed his deal,  that's different than him being on the block. His recent trade request is the only reason he's even available now. Orlando has consistently turned teams away for him 

We went 8-0 without Hunter. Are we a better team with him or without him? 

[macdaddy]

6 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Can shoot 40% from 3.

In theory?

[RandomFan]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

In theory?

39.3% for this season, pardon me for rounding up

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

39.3% for this season, pardon me for rounding up

half a season.  Career 32%.  

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Teams have wanted him since he signed his deal,  that's different than him being on the block. His recent trade request is the only reason he's even available now. Orlando has consistently turned teams away for him 

We went 8-0 without Hunter. Are we a better team with him or without him? 

Perhaps our resident eggsperts @NBASupes and @thecampster can settle the dispute regarding whether or not he's been available prior to now?  I think I'm right that he's been shopped before now.

We're not 8-0 without Hunter unless you're just choosing to take a cross-section of the schedule that agrees with the point you're trying to make.

But hey, no need for us to fight.  Doesn't seem likely we're gonna change each other's minds.

 

[JeffS17]

21 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Zero doubt in my mind that Gordon is better than JC. Can defend more positions on the floor,  and better. Is a better team defender and help defender. If just as athletic, maybe more. Can shoot 40% from 3. Is a better passer. Offensive stats are stunted because he plays with trash PGs. 

The only area JC is better is at setting and slipping screens.

Love JC and I have come around to the fact we should pay him but I agree AG is better right now.  I am hoping that is not the case in the future because I know JC has worked to improve different facets of his game every offseason.  I also agree wholeheartedly that it's tough to judge a guy like JC whose game has been so linked to Trae.

I think garbage teams with bad PGs and bad offensive systems are where you can find value guys that will flourish playing alongside a guy like Trae.  Trae's game is very similar to Harden and look how many shitty players Harden made look like they should be starters 

[thecampster]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Perhaps our resident eggsperts @NBASupes and @thecampster can settle the dispute regarding whether or not he's been available prior to now?  I think I'm right that he's been shopped before now.

We're not 8-0 without Hunter unless you're just choosing to take a cross-section of the schedule that agrees with the point you're trying to make.

But hey, no need for us to fight.  Doesn't seem likely we're gonna change each other's minds.

 

No to Gordon > JC.

I want boards and blocks out of my PF. He is better at neither. He scores a significantly lower FG% and is only functionally better in a few areas.

[KB21]

John Collins has 3.7 WAR on the year.  Aaron Gordon has 1.6 WAR.  

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Perhaps our resident eggsperts @NBASupes and @thecampster can settle the dispute regarding whether or not he's been available prior to now?  I think I'm right that he's been shopped before now.

We're not 8-0 without Hunter unless you're just choosing to take a cross-section of the schedule that agrees with the point you're trying to make.

But hey, no need for us to fight.  Doesn't seem likely we're gonna change each other's minds.

 

Lol, Hunter isn't available. No one in our core is at this moment. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Lol, Hunter isn't available. No one in our core is at this moment. 

Lol, that wasn't the question - it was about Aaron Gordon being on the trade block by Orlando in years prior to this one.

[RandomFan]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

No to Gordon > JC.

I want boards and blocks out of my PF. He is better at neither. He scores a significantly lower FG% and is only functionally better in a few areas.

We'll agree to disagree. I want switchability, better 1 on 1 D, along with better team D and awareness. 

Put AG next to Trae and watch that FG% skyrocket.

But Jon is who we've got and I'll pull for him 100%.

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

No to Gordon > JC.

I want boards and blocks out of my PF. He is better at neither. He scores a significantly lower FG% and is only functionally better in a few areas.

Collins career 2 pt % is 61.2%, Gordon is 50.7%.  Simple math, every 100 shots, Collins scores 20 more points.  Typical NBA team takes 90 shots a night....Collins FG% vs Gordon = 18 more points scored per game.

 

[RandomFan]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Lol, Hunter isn't available. No one in our core is at this moment. 

He's asking about Aaron Gordon, not Hunter. And he's asking about prior years,  not currently. 

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

We'll agree to disagree. I want switchability, better 1 on 1 D, along with better team D and awareness. 

Put AG next to Trae and watch that FG% skyrocket.

But Jon is who we've got and I'll pull for him 100%.

Base defensive stats, Collins for his career 1.2 blocks vs Gordon .6.  Collins rebounding 8.6 per game vs 6.4.  I can admit there are facets to Gordon's game that close the gap but he isn't better. To me better means total points scored vs total points given up.  His defensive liabilities do not equal his immense offensive domination vs Gordon.

Edited March 24, 2021 by thecampster