Official Game Thread: Hawks at Kings

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

You one of those dudes that goes down swinging no matter how wrong you are. 

You just described yourself and your boss North.

[Peoriabird]

23 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I'm sorry spud but you haven't proven anything except that you continually ignore what is convenient and only talk about the few examples that support your agenda.  You think winning TWO games out of 22 when Trae doesn't score proves we are wrong when there's about 35 games (wins and losses) that prove we are right.  Hell, last night when you weren't around the Hawks were LOSING by double digits while Trae wasn't scoring and it wasn't until he took the over when his shot started falling that they came back to tie the game.  

I thought the game was tied at half time.

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Bottom line is Hawks need Trae to be the superstar

Zeke was a superstar, you don’t need to chuck up unwarranted shots to be that, stop trying to desire a superstar that only puts up stats with no wins. YOU ARE WRONG. I want a superstar that wins, no Starbury please, thanks, and hold the Smelo’s too. Wins before anything.

[Spud2nique]

People like @TheNorthCydeRises and his friends are the Atlanta mentality of not winning. All they want is a show. You want a show go to the circus , I want wins. This ain’t you’re daddy’s, check that momma’s Hawks. We don’t want no mediocre.

[Peoriabird]

@TheNorthCydeRises and @REHawksFan  The Team can't live by Trae's streaky shooting period!  There will never be any growth with this team if that is the case.  We may as well go back to the lottery if that is how the team's offense will be structured.  They won't win a playoff series banking on Trae hitting 30 footer every night nor will they survive good defense expecting Trae to score 30 point per night efficiently.  This is just a retarded game play because he ain't Jordan in fact he ain't even James freaking Harden.  So to get the team as a whole to start to play smarter, Trae will have to play smarter.  There should not be a game where John Collin barely touches the ball in the 2nd half of a close game while taking only 1 shot.  There should be recognition on the team's part that one of its players is indeed hot that night. There should then be efforts made to run plays thru him not just default to a cold shooting Trae to try and win every game like that.  This is how you lose games not win them.  Trae is not a superstar at this point in time so stop treating him like he is.  This has to make sense to you guys.

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

People like @TheNorthCydeRises and his friends are the Atlanta mentality of not winning. All they want is a show. You want a show go to the circus , I want wins. This ain’t you’re daddy’s, check that momma’s Hawks. We don’t want no mediocre.

LOL.  Man, you can scream this from the tallest building but your other words contradict yourself.  

You say, "All I care about is winning"

You say, "I have no agenda. Just win."

BUT....

You reject any and all talk of the data that actually shows HOW the Hawks win.  You care not for what style or method of play actually produces those wins you say you want.  And you criticize and mock anyone that wants to support winning with data (which is oddly your agenda).  

You say you don't want Trae to be the scoring superstar, just win.  But you reject and readily dismiss the FACTS that the Hawks are 14-7 when he scores 28 pts or more and 8-15 when scores less than 28 pts.  You don't care that in the games the Hawks win, he avgs 29.3 pts AND 8.7 assists while in the games the Hawks lose, he avgs only 22.0 pts while still getting 10.1 assists.  

You can't say, "ALL I care about is winning" while simultaneously arguing vehemently AGAINST Trae being a scoring superstar.  

Your AGENDA is that you want the Hawks to win without Trae scoring or being the superstar.  But the problem with that is the Hawks CONSTRUCTED this team with Trae as the Sun.  Everyone else revolves around him, but he's the central point.  That's why they NEED him to be a superstar to have ultimate success.   

 

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

AGAINST Trae being a scoring superstar.  

Nope, never said that. If he scores 40 and the defense gives him that, I’ll take it. If he’s chucking up unwarranted shots just to try and carry us and forcing the issue, I don’t want that. Get your teammates involved, take what the defense gives you and let the game come to you. If that means you end up with 40 points or 10.

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

But you reject and readily dismiss the FACTS that the Hawks are 14-7 when he scores 28 pts or more and 8-15 when scores less than 28 pts.   

 

That's because he takes the majority of the shots and when he doesn't score 28, Its not because he isn't shooting.. Its because he is missing which kills the team's efficiency

[REHawksFan]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

@TheNorthCydeRises and @REHawksFan  The Team can't live by Trae's streaky shooting period!  There will never be any growth with this team is that is the case.  We may as well go back to the lottery if that is how the team's offense will be structured.  That won't win a playoff series banking on Trae hitting 30 footer every night nor will they survive good defense expecting Trae to score 30 point per night efficiently.  This is just a retarded game play because he ain't Jordan in fact he ain't even James freaking Harden.  So to get the team as a whole to start to play smarter, Trae will have to play smarter.  There should not be a game where John Collin barely touches the ball in the 2nd half of a close game while taking only 1 shot.  There should be recognition on the team that one of its players is indeed hot that night and there should be efforts made to run plays thru him not just default to a cold shooting Trae to try and win every game like that.  This is how you lose games not win them.  Trae is not a superstar at this point in time so stop treating him like he is.  This has to make sense to you guys.

Of course it makes sense.  And in theory, I don't agree with that.  The problem, that several of us have stated over and over again, is that the guys that we need to rely on, ARE NOT CONSISTENT.  You yourself have argued that Bogie shouldn't even play let alone get major minutes because he's struggled so much. And yet last night he was 7-11 for 20 pts.  You have advocated for Keven to play more at times and then benched at times.  Why? Because he's so inconsistent.  He's equally likely to go 4-7 from 3pt as he is 1-9.  The same is said for Cam when he's healthy and even Gallo.  

I agree that when Trae is off like last night, he shouldn't take 7 3pt shots.  But he's not often off like that. And my position is that when he is, he needs to attack the rim just like he did last night and use his floater to score.  Even you have to agree that the only reason the Hawks were in the game in the 4th was because Trae was aggressive in his scoring and attacking.  Yes, I agree he took too many 3's last night (only because he was struggling), but I'll also say I have confidence that even if he misses the first 6, the 7th will go in.  He's that kind of player. 

You say he isn't a superstar yet.  And you are probably right.  But the Hawks have built a team around him that more often than not NEEDS him to be a superstar for it to have consistent success.  That's just the reality of where we are from my vantage point.  

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Of course it makes sense.  And in theory, I don't agree with that.  The problem, that several of us have stated over and over again, is that the guys that we need to rely on, ARE NOT CONSISTENT.  You yourself have argued that Bogie shouldn't even play let alone get major minutes because he's struggled so much. And yet last night he was 7-11 for 20 pts. 

Yes Bogi is inconsistent just like Nathan Knight but when those guys have it going, It doesn't matter what they did the last game or for the season, get them the d-amn ball!

[marco102]

Me reading the last few pages of this thread.  

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I agree that when Trae is off like last night, he shouldn't take 7 3pt shots.  But he's not often off like that. And my position is that when he is, he needs to attack the rim just like he did last night and use his floater to score.  Even you have to agree that the only reason the Hawks were in the game in the 4th was because Trae was aggressive in his scoring and attacking.  Yes, I agree he took too many 3's last night (only because he was struggling), but I'll also say I have confidence that even if he misses the first 6, the 7th will go in.  He's that kind of player. 

You say he isn't a superstar yet.  And you are probably right.  But the Hawks have built a team around him that more often than not NEEDS him to be a superstar for it to have consistent success.  That's just the reality of where we are from my vantage point.  

My problem last night is when he figure out that he could drive the lane at will in the 4th there was a moment in that game when the score was tied and early in the shot clock, Trae took a 30 footer.  I could not believe my eyes.  I thought it was the most retarded play by  Trae last night.  Those are the plays that get you beat.  That's is why I keep harping on Trae needing to be a better decision maker before the Hawks become a consistent team.

[REHawksFan]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

That's because he takes the majority of the shots and when he doesn't score 28, Its not because he isn't shooting.. Its because he is missing which kills the team's efficiency

Because he gets to the the line so much when he's attacking (which is what we are advocating for), he's the most efficient scorer on the team despite having a relatively average FG%.  That's part of what makes him so dynamic as a player.  He can attack and put pressure on the defense and then kick out to teammates.  What gets lost in this whole debate is he's still Top 3 in the NBA in assists so it's not like he's ignoring his teammates.  He's still going to get them involved.  He just has to walk that line of knowing when to take over and when to get them involved.  He's still learning in that regard.  

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

My problem last night is when he figure out that he could drive the lane at will in the 4th there was a moment in that game when the score was tied and early in the shot clock, Trae took a 30 footer.  I could not believe my eyes.  I thought it was the most retarded play by  Trae last night.  Those are the plays that get you beat.  That's is why I keep harping on Trae needing to be a better decision maker before the Hawks become a consistent team.

Agree 100%.  He's still learning.  

And for the shot last night, it seemed to me like he thought his floater going in a few times in a row would give him confidence to see the 3 ball go in.  It obviously didn't.  I thought that was a dumb decision as well.  

But that dumb decision does not negate the fact that the 3 ball is a huge part of his game so he can't just abandon it all together even if it's not going in for a stretch.  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

Because he gets to the the line so much when he's attacking (which is what we are advocating for), he's the most efficient scorer on the team despite having a relatively average FG%.  That's part of what makes him so dynamic as a player.  He can attack and put pressure on the defense and then kick out to teammates.  What gets lost in this whole debate is he's still Top 3 in the NBA in assists so it's not like he's ignoring his teammates.  He's still going to get them involved.  He just has to walk that line of knowing when to take over and when to get them involved.  He's still learning in that regard.  

Right...A good example was the Clippers game.  PG and Leanard were getting their Azzes handed to them by the Hawks... What did they do?  They went to Luke Kennard who averages 7 ppg and Terrance Mann who averages 5 ppg and won the game with those guys.

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

But that dumb decision does not negate the fact that the 3 ball is a huge part of his game so he can't just abandon it all together even if it's not going in for a stretch.  

He just has to know game situation.  The games are usually in his hand and they win or lose with his decisions.  He obviously isn't ready for the role yet.

[REHawksFan]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Right...A good example was the Clippers game.  PG and Leanard were getting their Azzes handed to them by the Hawks... What did they do?  They went to Luke Kennard who averages 7 ppg and Terrance Mann who averages 5 ppg and won the game with those guys.

And you and I both know that was a Hail Mary by the Clippers.  They ain't putting their hopes of a win on Luke Kennard and Terrance Mann on a regular basis.  They rely on their stars.  

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

He just has to know game situation.  The games are usually in his hand and they win or lose with his decisions.  He obviously isn't ready for the role yet.

Absolutely.  I agree.  And like I said, he's still learning.  He still has to figure it all out.  With Nate at the helm, the hope is he gets excellent PG coaching and will continue to get better at knowing when is his time and when isn't.  

[hawkzlova123]

12 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Agree 100%.  He's still learning.  

And for the shot last night, it seemed to me like he thought his floater going in a few times in a row would give him confidence to see the 3 ball go in.  It obviously didn't.  I thought that was a dumb decision as well.  

But that dumb decision does not negate the fact that the 3 ball is a huge part of his game so he can't just abandon it all together even if it's not going in for a stretch.  

The exact three ball tied the game for us

[AHF]

I'd love it if we just talked about the game and the players and spent a lot less time talking about other posters.  That is when this site is at its best.

There are legit disagreements about how this team should operate to put us in the best position to win.  There are legit disagreements about how meaningful the lessons we take are when we are facing D-League level competition.  All of those discussions can be had without making another poster the subject of discussion.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

And you and I both know that was a Hail Mary by the Clippers.  They ain't putting their hopes of a win on Luke Kennard and Terrance Mann on a regular basis.  They rely on their stars.  

 

It has happened to us a couple of time too with Nathan Knight but last night Nate and Trae didn't recognize down the stretch that Bogi was that 2nd option and didn't look for him.  Hopefully these are growing plains for both Nate and Trae for the future