Suns too Small

[sillent]

Milwaukee is definitely showing us we are/were 1/2 pieces away. The one knock I did have on our roster last year is that we had no 7ftrs. I was probably one of the rare ones that wanted to keep Damian Jones over Bruno.

No knock on Bruno I actually think he will be a good player. Also I know Damian Jones isn't the best player and is foul prone.

With the right coaching/motivation on his part he might've came of great service against Lopez but the past is past.

I hope now though that atleast our GM sees the importance of having atleast 1 player of size. The small ball hype train sounds good until you have to battle against the big and can't run and gun or stay on the perimeter. 

The playoffs is a battlefield and the more versatile weapons we have the better.

 

[hylndr11]

I havent watched any of the games what are the bucks doing to beat the sun's. And shouldn't we have a thread discussing the finals ?? I was looking for one 

Edited July 18, 2021 by hylndr11

[NBASupes]

Matching Giannis is problematic for a lot of NBA teams. There are guys who can give him some issues and we got one in Okongwu. We just gotta play him more. As for Lopez, we gotta stop allowing dribble penetration to make it a true 1v1 for Capela

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 hours ago, sillent said:

Milwaukee is definitely showing us we are/were 1/2 pieces away. The one knock I did have on our roster last year is that we had no 7ftrs. I was probably one of the rare ones that wanted to keep Damian Jones over Bruno.

No knock on Bruno I actually think he will be a good player. Also I know Damian Jones isn't the best player and is foul prone.

With the right coaching/motivation on his part he might've came of great service against Lopez but the past is past.

I hope now though that atleast our GM sees the importance of having atleast 1 player of size. The small ball hype train sounds good until you have to battle against the big and can't run and gun or stay on the perimeter. 

The playoffs is a battlefield and the more versatile weapons we have the better.

 

 

The biggest problem with Jones, is that he was constantly out of position on defense, and was horrible with his rebounding. And that led to his fouling.  As a center, it is almost a travesty if you're not getting 10 rebounds/per 36 minutes, in a league where everyone is shooting jumpers, and not sending more than 2 guys in the paint for offensive rebounds.  Jones only averaged 8.4 rebs/36 min when he was a Hawk.

In fact, he's never averaged over 10 rebs/36 min in any NBA season.  His biggest asset was that he could really catch that lob from Trae.  But that's his best and only asset as a big man.  It's a reason why Jones was on 3 teams last year ( including Phoenix ).  The guy that would've been more of a benefit to us, is Alex Len.  He was a big who could rebound at a high level, and had versatility as a scorer, until the clock struck midnight on his corner 3 point jumper.

The guy that the Suns really miss, is Dario Saric.  He's 6-10 and a versatile scorer, much in the mold of Gallo, but not as good as him.  But he's technically a "big", and would help the Suns in this series.

And this is why I'd rather have a team that was flexible from a play style standpoint, than to have a team who could come in and do some of the same things our starters can do.

As for Bruno, a team ( whether it be us or someone else ), is going to find out that he can actually be an asset playing the 4, as well as the 5.  At the 5, he is a bit undersized height wise, but is fine from a strength standpoint.  At the 4, he'd be able to guard the Bobby Portises of the world, and even be able to build somewhat of a better wall at the point of attack when matched up against Giannis.  At 6-6, a guy like Solo can't do this, and will not able to be able to get tough rebounds.

Solo may have a nice veteran "voice" in the locker room, but I hope Travis doesn't place Solo's ability to articulate key points over his ability to actually produce on the court.

If given the choice, give me Knight or Bruno over Solo, because they're the versatile bigs that could help in a series with Milwaukee ( if given the chance ).

[RedDawg#8]

Bucks are doing what they did to the Hawks. They are turning up the intensity and pressure.

We can say it's size, but it's really their hustle and dog mentality. Giannis is obviously a freak and dominates the paint and the glass, but outside of him 6-5 Pat Connaughton 6-3 Jrue Holiday and 6-7 Middleton are all actually out rebounding their bigs Lopez, Tucker and Portis in this series.

It's a total team effort for them. They know Giannis throws up bricks so they are always locked in on the offensive glass to get tip outs and steal a possession.

Watching last night, Jrue was the difference maker for them. When he elevates his energy they are a different team. He is making life hard for their ball handlers, and has just enough size, IQ and shooting to punish the Suns defense on the other end no matter how they try and play him.

The Bucks have figured out a winning formula that involves Holiday and/or Middleton closing out games due to their shot making ability. Giannis is playing off of them down the stretch. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Bucks are doing what they did to the Hawks. They are turning up the intensity and pressure.

We can say it's size, but it's really their hustle and dog mentality. Giannis is obviously a freak and dominates the paint and the glass, but outside of him 6-5 Pat Connaughton 6-3 Jrue Holiday and 6-7 Middleton are all actually out rebounding their bigs Lopez, Tucker and Portis in this series.

It's a total team effort for them. They know Giannis throws up bricks so they are always locked in on the offensive glass to get tip outs and steal a possession.

Watching last night, Jrue was the difference maker for them. When he elevates his energy they are a different team. He is making life hard for their ball handlers, and has just enough size, IQ and shooting to punish the Suns defense on the other end no matter how they try and play him.

The Bucks have figured out a winning formula that involves Holiday and/or Middleton closing out games due to their shot making ability. Giannis is playing off of them down the stretch. 

 

 

100% agree with your post.  But I want to focus on the last point.

It was interesting to me to see Giannis in the last 4 minutes of that game.  As much as the media tries to talk about what Giannis should do as a player, and even questioning his status as a superstar because he doesn't close games, Giannis knows EXACTLY what he can and can't do.

And he also trusts Kris Middleton UNCONDITIONALLY.

Giannis had no problem with Kris, and even Jrue, taking critical shots down the stretch of that game, because Giannis knew that those two guys had the mismatches with Paul on them.  Even when the game was getting tight, Giannis still trusted those guys because he knows that their ability to create and make tough shots, is better than his.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

When I look at the final critical defensive play of that game, with Holiday stealing the ball, I can only dream of how we would play this scenario.

• Hunter on Booker . . . . . bigger defender
• Cam on CP3 . . . . . . . . . . bigger defender
• Trae on Crowder . . . . . . smaller defender, Crowder only a perimeter threat
• Collins on Bridges . . . . . bigger defender
• Capela on Ayton . . . . . . smaller defender, more athletic than Ayton

And I could see Hunter properly funneling Booker right toward Capela, with Cam dropping off of Paul and ripping the ball out of Booker's hands to start the fast break.  Everything about this play was a defensive masterpiece.  And I loved Giannis stare into the camera.  It was a "I will NOT be denied" type of stare.

 

 

The biggest jumps we need to make as a team, is the ability of others to help Capela and Collins on the boards, and to be able to have the ability to really lock down people on defense.

I think we are close, but I really want to see if our group can become a top 3 defense in the league next season.  Hunter and Cam MUST become better defensive rebounders though.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

When I look at the final critical defensive play of that game, with Holiday stealing the ball, I can only dream of how we would play this scenario.

• Hunter on Booker . . . . . bigger defender
• Cam on CP3 . . . . . . . . . . bigger defender
• Trae on Crowder . . . . . . smaller defender, Crowder only a perimeter threat
• Collins on Bridges . . . . . bigger defender
• Capela on Ayton . . . . . . smaller defender, more athletic than Ayton

And I could see Hunter properly funneling Booker right toward Capela, with Cam dropping off of Paul and ripping the ball out of Booker's hands to start the fast break.  Everything about this play was a defensive masterpiece.  And I loved Giannis stare into the camera.  It was a "I will NOT be denied" type of stare.

 

 

The biggest jumps we need to make as a team, is the ability of others to help Capela and Collins on the boards, and to be able to have the ability to really lock down people on defense.

I think we are close, but I really want to see if our group can become a top 3 defense in the league next season.  Hunter and Cam MUST become better defensive rebounders though.

This defensive matchup analysis is spot on. That Jrue steal reminded me of the Cam steal vs Fournier. 

[sillent]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The biggest problem with Jones, is that he was constantly out of position on defense, and was horrible with his rebounding. And that led to his fouling.  As a center, it is almost a travesty if you're not getting 10 rebounds/per 36 minutes, in a league where everyone is shooting jumpers, and not sending more than 2 guys in the paint for offensive rebounds.  Jones only averaged 8.4 rebs/36 min when he was a Hawk.

In fact, he's never averaged over 10 rebs/36 min in any NBA season.  His biggest asset was that he could really catch that lob from Trae.  But that's his best and only asset as a big man.  It's a reason why Jones was on 3 teams last year ( including Phoenix ).  The guy that would've been more of a benefit to us, is Alex Len.  He was a big who could rebound at a high level, and had versatility as a scorer, until the clock struck midnight on his corner 3 point jumper.

The guy that the Suns really miss, is Dario Saric.  He's 6-10 and a versatile scorer, much in the mold of Gallo, but not as good as him.  But he's technically a "big", and would help the Suns in this series.

And this is why I'd rather have a team that was flexible from a play style standpoint, than to have a team who could come in and do some of the same things our starters can do.

As for Bruno, a team ( whether it be us or someone else ), is going to find out that he can actually be an asset playing the 4, as well as the 5.  At the 5, he is a bit undersized height wise, but is fine from a strength standpoint.  At the 4, he'd be able to guard the Bobby Portises of the world, and even be able to build somewhat of a better wall at the point of attack when matched up against Giannis.  At 6-6, a guy like Solo can't do this, and will not able to be able to get tough rebounds.

Solo may have a nice veteran "voice" in the locker room, but I hope Travis doesn't place Solo's ability to articulate key points over his ability to actually produce on the court.

If given the choice, give me Knight or Bruno over Solo, because they're the versatile bigs that could help in a series with Milwaukee ( if given the chance ).

I agree with Damian but Alex Len was too soft too often. We don't have Vince forcing him to go hard. I'd find a 7fter in the draft if anything with the #48 pick just as an athletic big body.

Solo was tremendous for us overall as far as his heart on the court during the regular season and his locker room presence. He also thinks with a cerebral mind so I would keep him for chemistry purposes. I agree though overall talent wise, size, etc Knight and Bruno are the better choices.

Besides the fact that the Suns are lacking depth in height they are also making young mistakes on the court. Chris Paul is doing it right along with them. They got away from their style of play and ball movement and as a result are struggling to close out games. Sounds familiar. 

Milwaukee is/was probably like we are not going to let them little boys beat us no matter how talented they are. I feel like that's exactly how they felt about us.

[Guest]

Well...at least we lost to the eventual champions.

[bleachkit]

Wait, I thought the Bucks are better with out Giannis, and we got unlucky with him getting hurt. One of the dumbest takes in the history of the Squawk. 

[hylndr11]

Did they beat them same way they beat us ? What happened to ayton?

[ATLHawks3]

1 minute ago, hylndr11 said:

Did they beat them same way they beat us ? What happened to ayton?

Foul trouble and the yips around the rim. 

[hylndr11]

4 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

Foul trouble and the yips around the rim. 

Must have been real bad foul trouble Giannis tossing up 40 and 50 pts a game with a bum leg ? Nah

[bleachkit]

Start of the Giannis dynasty. 

[DawnOfThemBirds]

18 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Start of the Giannis dynasty. 

 

For some reason I don't see Giannis and the Bucks becoming the traditional dynasty. Middleton would have to become a more consistently reliable player and Holiday would have to show up more than they have.

 

If they win multiple, I think it would be more Spurs like with a fair amount of titles sprinkled throughout years as they remain a top competitive NBA team for a long time.

 

They could be a Spurs like dynasty while another team may be the more traditional dynasty over the next decade.

[ATLHawks3]

Bucks are the next obstacle. Just like the Heat/Cavs/Warriors were of the 2010s. 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Wait, I thought the Bucks are better with out Giannis, and we got unlucky with him getting hurt. One of the dumbest takes in the history of the Squawk. 

I  may be misinterpreting this, but some said that the Bucks were easier to defend with Giannis on the court.  Without him, Jrue and Middleton got way more aggressive because the lane wasn't as clogged and exposed the Hawks perimeter defense much more without Giannis as the offense was being run through him.

 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, marco102 said:

I  may be misinterpreting this, but some said that the Bucks were easier to defend with Giannis on the court.  Without him, Jrue and Middleton got way more aggressive because the lane wasn't as clogged and exposed the Hawks perimeter defense much more without Giannis as the offense was being run through him.

 

Exactly...

When you know that the points are coming from Giannis, you don't have to worry about Portis and Lopez and Jrue as much... when Giannis leaves and Jrue becomes a distributor who can score off the dribble, that team becomes very dangerous.   The Suns didn't have an answer for Giannis.  i.e. they knew where the points were coming from and they couldn't stop it.   Our defensive scheme against Giannis worked better in MHO.   It's just that when he got taken off the court, we didn't have the blackhole sucking up the ball on every play.   Now, it was Jrue Holliday finding everybody. 

To make it simple... look at the statline of us vs. them when Giannis was there... vs. not there.   When he didn't play they had 5 players in double digit scoring if I'm not mistaken.  

 

[Atlantaholic]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:36 AM, RedDawg#8 said:

Bucks are doing what they did to the Hawks. They are turning up the intensity and pressure.

We can say it's size, but it's really their hustle and dog mentality. Giannis is obviously a freak and dominates the paint and the glass, but outside of him 6-5 Pat Connaughton 6-3 Jrue Holiday and 6-7 Middleton are all actually out rebounding their bigs Lopez, Tucker and Portis in this series.

It's a total team effort for them. They know Giannis throws up bricks so they are always locked in on the offensive glass to get tip outs and steal a possession.

Watching last night, Jrue was the difference maker for them. When he elevates his energy they are a different team. He is making life hard for their ball handlers, and has just enough size, IQ and shooting to punish the Suns defense on the other end no matter how they try and play him.

The Bucks have figured out a winning formula that involves Holiday and/or Middleton closing out games due to their shot making ability. Giannis is playing off of them down the stretch. 

 

Bucks in Milwaukee are pretty unbeatable. Remember how they made us look in game two with Trae healthy. Sometimes you acknowledge the other team is just better.