Jalen Johnson may be better than De'Andre Hunter and Cam Reddish

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, Alex said:

He quit on his team.  Nobody in their mind can defend that.

Research it. His team wanted to shut him down for the last 3 weeks of the season. He spoke with Coach K and it was a mutual agreement he could just shut all the way down and get ready for the draft. Its been litigated.

 

If you had the chance to make $2 million dollars last year but you'd have to leave your mother and father for 3 months to do it, you'd be gone before your mother's first tear hit the floor. Be honest with yourself.

[Gray Mule]

Words from a hit song from way back, end of World War 2:

How are you going to keep him down on the farm after he has saw Pariee!! (Paris)

Our rookies need to go to G League to learn professional basketball.  They will probably run the same offense and defense as the parent club.  They should grow and learn here.  Sometime in the season they will be called up, either because one of the regulars are injured or we may have made a deadline trade.

Once either of them comes up for several games, it's going to be very hard to send them back to the farm.  They have had a taste of the majors and I'm sure they will love it.  Better for everyone that they start "down on the farm" because they both need to play.  If they stay up, end of the bench, that's not good.

[MarylandHawk]

12 hours ago, Alex said:

He quit on his team.  Nobody in their mind can defend that.

He did not. The year at Duke did not go as any of them expected. Jalen Johnson was going to be a one and done player from the outset. Coach K knew that. The plan for Jalen was to help them get a far as possible on a national championship run. Things got off to a great start, he had. 19 and 19 game in his debut appearance. Then injury hit, Coach chose not to play in several games due to the pandemic, Duke lost more games, the students were locked up in hotels and couldn't experience campus life. The team was not going to make the tournament. Jalen forced his way back on the court after the injury and had one of the most dominate performances in Duke history...in a loss. At that point, his foot was re-aggravated and the next couple of games he did not play well. THIS IS WHEN COACH K decided to go in a different direction to develop some of the younger guys on the team that he knew would be returning who also fit better into his system. At this point Jalen had to start considering what was best for him. Stay at Duke in a reduced role playing limited minutes. Stay at Duke rehab a foot injury. Or start preparing yourself for your first real job in life and get the best possible jump start that you can. He did that latter. Non of that sounds like quitting. His teammates supported the decision because it meant more playing time for them. Coach supported it because he could develop for next year. His agents supported it because he was protecting his draft stock. It worked out for all involved. Although he wasn’t a top 10 pick, he was clearly overjoyed to be drafted by the Hawks because there was a real moment where he felt his dream slipping away. There is a paradigm shift about college BB relevance as a path to the NBA. Kids have different options now and the traditional college supporters can’t wrap their minds around that concept. Nobody is mad that Steve jobs or Bill gates dropped out of college to pursue their dreams. Obviously there were a lot of emotions involved especially when you believe you are the best prospect in the class. We will sit back and enjoy the outcome as he develops into the person he believes he can be. 

[Dynamo]

De’ Andre,Cam and Jalen have different styles.(It’s a good position to be in.)I like Jalen’s point forward skills.

 

[terrell]

5 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Words from a hit song from way back, end of World War 2:

How are you going to keep him down on the farm after he has saw Pariee!! (Paris)

Our rookies need to go to G League to learn professional basketball.  They will probably run the same offense and defense as the parent club.  They should grow and learn here.  Sometime in the season they will be called up, either because one of the regulars are injured or we may have made a deadline trade.

Once either of them comes up for several games, it's going to be very hard to send them back to the farm.  They have had a taste of the majors and I'm sure they will love it.  Better for everyone that they start "down on the farm" because they both need to play.  If they stay up, end of the bench, that's not good.

Agreed..How can you Actually look down at the bench and Call up Solo when Jalen is right next to him? lol

[bleachkit]

14 hours ago, Alex said:

He quit on his team.  Nobody in their mind can defend that.

Hopefully with the Hawks he can change the narrative. 

[Final_quest]

To me Jalen looks way better than Cam.  I’m not concerned about his decision to leave Duke and recover.  I think he could even surpass Hunter, but I’m liking Jalen more than all of our other prospects.  
 

[bleachkit]

27 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

To me Jalen looks way better than Cam.  I’m not concerned about his decision to leave Duke and recover.  I think he could even surpass Hunter, but I’m liking Jalen more than all of our other prospects.  
 

Let's see how regular season looks. 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

To me Jalen looks way better than Cam.  I’m not concerned about his decision to leave Duke and recover.  I think he could even surpass Hunter, but I’m liking Jalen more than all of our other prospects.  
 

Cam would probably look like prime MJ in summer league.  Lets remember, summer league is a lower level of competition than even preseason NBA.

[MarylandHawk]

5 hours ago, marco102 said:

Cam would probably look like prime MJ in summer league.  Lets remember, summer league is a lower level of competition than even preseason NBA.

Let’s remember even Trae struggled against this lesser competition. I would argue that this years summer league is much more competitive than ones in years past. All the top prospects played, the gym was full and all the stars were there watching and due to covid shortened college seasons and GLeague dominant players, guys were really trying to play hard. It is not the regular season, but the one thing about regular season nba basketball is that the defense is worse. I agree though that these guys won’t see hardly any minutes in the regular season and those limited minutes will mess with their rhythm. Also, if they do get in, they will be the 4th or 5th option. 

[hazer]

21 hours ago, Alex said:

He quit on his team.  Nobody in their mind can defend that.

Ohhhh how I’ve missed your curmudgeonism, welcome back ‘Lex

[niremetal]

15 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

Let’s remember even Trae struggled against this lesser competition. I would argue that this years summer league is much more competitive than ones in years past. All the top prospects played, the gym was full and all the stars were there watching and due to covid shortened college seasons and GLeague dominant players, guys were really trying to play hard. It is not the regular season, but the one thing about regular season nba basketball is that the defense is worse.

Come on, now. I'll grant that there is higher-than-average on-ball defensive EFFORT in SL from SOME players simply because this is the one audition those guys will get. But the guys who that is most true for are the WORST players there. And the overall size, athleticism, bball IQ, and just general defensive skill is much, much lower in SL than in even the most meaningless of regular-season NBA games. To say nothing of the lack of chemistry on defense during SL, which leads to lots of breakdowns.

There is literally no aspect of the SL experience that is within the same zip code as NBA ball.

Edited August 16, 2021 by niremetal

[MarylandHawk]

7 minutes ago, niremetal said:

Come on, now. I'll grant that there is higher-than-average on-ball defensive EFFORT in SL from SOME players simply because this is the one audition those guys will get. But the guys who that is most true for are the WORST players there. And the overall size, athleticism, bball IQ, and just general defensive skill is much, much lower in SL than in even the most meaningless of regular-season NBA games. To say nothing of the lack of chemistry on defense during SL, which leads to lots of breakdowns.

There is literally no aspect of the SL experience that is within the same zip code as NBA ball.

The nba regular season is literally the worst defense in all of basketball strictly based on how it is refereed. Defense is not even allowed to be played until the playoffs start. When you add in pacing and space, it us much easier to score. By no means am I saying summer league players are as good as nba players but there is a reason they play these games and if you can perform well against that level of competition who are literally fighting for their careers, then some of that will translate at the next level. 

[marco102]

28 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

Let’s remember even Trae struggled against this lesser competition. I would argue that this years summer league is much more competitive than ones in years past. All the top prospects played, the gym was full and all the stars were there watching and due to covid shortened college seasons and GLeague dominant players, guys were really trying to play hard. It is not the regular season, but the one thing about regular season nba basketball is that the defense is worse. I agree though that these guys won’t see hardly any minutes in the regular season and those limited minutes will mess with their rhythm. Also, if they do get in, they will be the 4th or 5th option. 

Yes, rookie cam may have struggled against this competetion, but third year Cam wouldn't.  We got Payton Pritchard out here looking like prime Steve Nash.  

You can't deem much from your rookies struggling in summer league or performing super well for that matter.  Experienced NBA players should shine in summer league.

[Gray Mule]

9 hours ago, niremetal said:

Come on, now. 

There is literally no aspect of the SL experience that is within the same zip code as NBA ball.

Aah!  Some things are very similar.  Maybe as a bike and a car are alike because they both have wheels.  The floor is the same size and all the measurements inside are the same.  Size of the ball and the goal = the same.

Agreed, the skill set of the competition is not nearly as good.  However, a shot in either one will hit or miss exactly the same.  A three is a three.  A dunk is a dunk.  Free throws?  What is different here?

For the most part these players are the lesser players in the world.  However there is enough of exactly the same thing here as in the NBA to make it worthwhile.  If not, then why do it?

[AHF]

Public Service Announcement:

Enjoy summer league.  It comes in the dead time of the year for basketball.  Teams are usually thrown together at the last minute and consist of players who have never played together and coaches who have had almost no time with them.  Players range from future NBA stars to guys who will never raise an eyebrow in the G-League.  The average talent will never play a minute in the NBA.  This makes for fun basketball with some extreme highlights but one should be very cautious about drawing many conclusions about future NBA success or failure from summer league play.  Summer league stars consist of that same range of players - nba busts, nba stars and guys who will never even log an official minute.  The same range applies to guys who struggle in the summer league - some become stars, some role players, and most never sniff the league.  This is not NBA ball.  
 

It is good to know that and think of it somewhere between a dunk contest and actual NBA action.  And remember knowing is half the battle. 

[Final_quest]

I think that we looked at this before.  Someone not playing well or just playing average doesn’t mean very much.  Rookies that dominate typically have NBA success, but not always.  So, it means something but not everything.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

I think that we looked at this before.  Someone not playing well or just playing average doesn’t mean very much.  Rookies that dominate typically have NBA success, but not always.  So, it means something but not everything.  

You'll have to remind me.  I don't think I've seen anything but anecdotes.  If there is some kind of study or data set with this, I'd be happy to see it.

Again, I don't view it as having any meaningful predictive power.  There is very little structure, very little chemistry between players, and a low grade of talent.  The player's resume prior to the draft means a lot more to me for projecting their NBA future than how they do in the showcase exhibition that is the summer league.

[txsting]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:18 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

This is a controversial and bold statement.  But it may be the truth.

Johnson's perimeter and ball handling skills can't be denied.  He's easily the better passer.  And I think he's the better isolation player, although De'Andre has vastly improved his midrange game.  Cam is potentially a better 3 point shooter, but consistency has been his issue from that range.

 

I wouldn't say that he's a better man defender than De'Andre or Cam, but he definitely has a better array of offensive skills than those two.  It's going to be VERY INTERESTING how Nate uses him.  You almost have to play him at the 3, with spot minutes at the 4.  He definitely makes Gallo expendable either during the season, or next offseason.

NBADraft.net ratings

• Athleticism      8
• Size                  8
• Defense            8
• Strength           8
• Quickness         8
• Leadership        7
• Jump Shot         7
• NBA Ready       7
• Ball Handling     8
• Potential            9
• Passing              8
• Intangibles       7

Overall                        93

 

To me, the ratings in red are ridiculous.   The guy is easily one of the 5 best athletes in this draft.  And at 6-9, his size is ideal to put at the 3 and even as a small ball 4 in a quick lineup  He didn't shoot the 3 with enough volume in college, so I can see why people may have had doubts with his long range shooting.  But I'm tempted to even bump him up here. 

He's DEFINITELY NBA ready.  I don't think few people can deny that.   And as far as intangibles, he has that too, with the way he can be a secondary ball handler and be a very good weak side defender. He's also ultra confident, which will help him adjust to the league very quickly.

Nate has a very good problem on his hands.  He has a playoff tested team that has good to great chemistry together.  And he doesn't have to rush putting the kids on the floor in expanded roles.

But how do you keep Jalen Johnson out of this rotation?  I honestly don't think you can.

At minimum, he completely takes over the Solo spot as our 3rd string SF/PF.  At maximum . . . he plays well enough to justify him being the 6th/7th man . . . or even starting, if Hunter and Reddish continue to be hampered by injuries.

And by the start of the 2022 - 23 season, our best wing may be Johnson . . . not Hunter or Reddish.

Let's not put all that weight on him just yet.  He's a rookie, a prospect with potential.  He's a project too, because he needs to install some upgrades in order to reach that potential.  It's up to him how good he wants to be.

[Final_quest]

56 minutes ago, AHF said:

You'll have to remind me.  I don't think I've seen anything but anecdotes.  If there is some kind of study or data set with this, I'd be happy to see it.

Again, I don't view it as having any meaningful predictive power.  There is very little structure, very little chemistry between players, and a low grade of talent.  The player's resume prior to the draft means a lot more to me for projecting their NBA future than how they do in the showcase exhibition that is the summer league.

Yep, it was based off a foggy memory, and I didn't feel like finding the needle in a haystack.  Even for something like summer league data tells a story.  It's less predictive than other data sets, but performance is not completely meaningless.  Will post if I find anything.