Where I've been....

[Sothron]

I am also not a fan of the logo 3's. It is imo a very stupid shot to take unless there is time running out of the shot clock. I can maybe see trying it once a half to try and throw defenses a wrinkle but that's it. The only problem I have with Trae is his logo 3's. He has gotten better on defense this year and it is about the most we can expect out of a guy so short and with no great wing span or defensive IQ.

[Hawkmoor]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:37 PM, thecampster said:

So where has Camp been (asked a bewildered @Kg01)?

I honestly needed a break. Not from the board, but from the NBA. That first few weeks of the season watching the NBA turn into Rugby and ball handling craftsman like Trae not getting any calls, forget the foul hunting took a lot of joy out of the game for me. It was ugly. I watched Trae get decked a few times to open the season (with no call) and my blood was boiling. But about 10 games in, I took a few games off....completely. First time in maybe 6 years I didn't watch back to back games. I've popped in back and forth but between the muscled up play in response to the lighter ref whistle and the way we're losing games, I took some time off. I'm not necessarily back now and I am following things but this was a tough first 1/4 of the season to watch.

Thoughts

• I'm tiring of the logo 3's. There are better shots to be had, we need to start taking them. Making other teams play 5 man defense.
• At the beginning of the year, I pined for Demarcus Cousins to fill out the bench.  I'm feeling vindicated.
• I am onboard with bringing JJ up and giving him real minutes (defense be damned). I checked his College Parks stats today.  He is average 19/11/3.5 with 1.2 steals and 1.1 blocks per game. He has very little left to prove in the GLeague.
• Last year about this time I bagged on Bogi and he started to show out. Time to do that with D Wright. IMHO, he gets his act together or Shariffe/Skylar get minutes.
• I didn't like the Cabarrot signing when we did it. Didn't like it when he was on the bench. Really don't like it now that he's playing.
• Teams have figured out our schemes involving Trae and CC and are starting to exploit it. Our defensive scheme here sucks and teams know it.
• Someone needs to start slapping Kevin Huerter before every game to piss him off. I'm really tired of him looking like Hulk Hogan one night and Lady Elizabeth the next. Kevin has the skills to be a number 3 option in this league and he might just be too nice for the gig.
• I don't care how good Dre is when healthy if he's only healthy 20 games a year.

 

Usually around this time I have some trade suggestions or hear some rumblings and share them with the board. Nothing right now. This is what it is unless someone offers us a way to better ourselves. The team is not about to mortgage their cap position to salvage the present. Ownership is still thinking long term and quite frankly, I'm peeved.

Pretty spot on to how I see it.   Its why I keep clamoring for them to bring in Kyrie Irving.  I mentioned a few weeks back that if you can put up with Trae's non defense, you can put up with Jalen Johnson learning as he goes.  There is no excuse for Jalen to not get minutes.  I honestly believe he is the best player on the team once he is fully developed.  Finally, don't get me started on the logo threes.  Its one of the reasons i myself barely watch the Hawks.

[kg01]

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

I am also not a fan of the logo 3's. It is imo a very stupid shot to take unless there is time running out of the shot clock. I can maybe see trying it once a half to try and throw defenses a wrinkle but that's it. The only problem I have with Trae is his logo 3's. He has gotten better on defense this year and it is about the most we can expect out of a guy so short and with no great wing span or defensive IQ.

My issue is shot selection.   I dont mind th logo 3s so much.  There are times when a long-ish 3 (arguably) comes naturally as we move the ball.   I have a problem with him forcing it, which inevitably leads to a fast break.

You almost have to take the good with the bad because sometimes they clearly need him to go for it offensively.  Bad shots come with the territory.  And that's true for any player in that role.

[thecampster]

On queue, JJ had a monster game last night.

 

[Atlantaholic]

17 hours ago, Sothron said:

I am also not a fan of the logo 3's. It is imo a very stupid shot to take unless there is time running out of the shot clock. I can maybe see trying it once a half to try and throw defenses a wrinkle but that's it. The only problem I have with Trae is his logo 3's. He has gotten better on defense this year and it is about the most we can expect out of a guy so short and with no great wing span or defensive IQ.

Thing is he is shooting a high % from the logo. I can't find the numbers but I remember late last year his % from that distance was higher than his overall 3pt%. I don't mind the shot as long as he is making a decent %, the only exception to  me is when it comes in the fourth quarter of tight games. Those need never exist. 

[Atlantaholic]

15 minutes ago, thecampster said:

On queue, JJ had a monster game last night.

 

It will be interesting to see if we give JJ some minutes with the major league team after christmas. If he starts producing does that make Gallo expendable to include in a trade? I think that's an interesting story. 

[shakes]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:37 PM, thecampster said:

So where has Camp been (asked a bewildered @Kg01)?

I honestly needed a break. Not from the board, but from the NBA. That first few weeks of the season watching the NBA turn into Rugby and ball handling craftsman like Trae not getting any calls, forget the foul hunting took a lot of joy out of the game for me. It was ugly. I watched Trae get decked a few times to open the season (with no call) and my blood was boiling. But about 10 games in, I took a few games off....completely. First time in maybe 6 years I didn't watch back to back games. I've popped in back and forth but between the muscled up play in response to the lighter ref whistle and the way we're losing games, I took some time off. I'm not necessarily back now and I am following things but this was a tough first 1/4 of the season to watch.

 

it's funny, I thought I was the only person who was so disgusted in the reffing at the start of the year that I thought of quitting the sport.  Glad to see you actually had the stones to go through with it.  I just kept watching and getting upset.

[hylndr11]

Tldr ; capela sucks again

[kg01]

Scooch over, @thecampster.  I may have to join you.  Promise me some cold beer and good company and I may never leave.

[hawkman]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Scooch over, @thecampster.  I may have to join you.  Promise me some cold beer and good company and I may never leave.

Agreed. I have zero interest in watching listless, uninspired basketball. Campster may be on to something.

[JeffS17]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:05 PM, Atlantaholic said:

It will be interesting to see if we give JJ some minutes with the major league team after christmas. If he starts producing does that make Gallo expendable to include in a trade? I think that's an interesting story. 

I'd like to see Gallo moved.  The guy is regressing every game it feels.  By next season he might not be able to dribble without falling down, his balance is so bad and he looks so uncoordinated out there.  He won't get whistles in the playoffs like last year and is set to be a huge liability.

[Wretch]

Let me say this first...I'm not here to argue with anyone about how to better run the offense, because I probably agree with anything and everything that you could possibly say.  However, my take is that all of the ill-advised 3's from Trae boil down to accountability.  There just isn't anyone on this team that can check him.  Going back to the playoffs, yes we did well...but as a team we made it harder than it had to be by constantly missing wide open shots - many after Trae drew attention and created them.  This same issue allows teams to over-commit to Trae on a nightly basis with an uncomfortable amount of success. 

If there were another alpha on this team, there is no way he could get away with that shot.  Period.  Because now there's a guy who can get a better shot, make an open shot (pretty much guaranteed), or create a better opportunity for Trae.  He will also have the support of the team.  It's just a different dynamic.

Trae is great at getting others involved and you can see him putting forth the effort - and even passing up the ill advised shot at times to set someone up.  There are times when the offense stalls though and you can see him taking control.  He knows he can hit that shot, so he's going to take it rather than fight the defense or suffer through the offensive lapse. Another point to consider is that he is going to take the blame whether he shoots or not.  I'm not defending his shot selection as much as I'm suggesting what's going through his head.  It's damned if I do/don't scenario and it's a good bet that he's going to shoot it.  It's not the same when you KNOW someone else can get a better shot and make it.

[Wretch]

PS for those who remember watching Nique...

"Dammit Nique, why the hell did you shoot that!  You're killing us!"
"Dammit Nique, why the hell didn't you shoot that!  You're killing us!"

lol....  It is what it is.

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, Wretch said:

It's not the same when you KNOW someone else can get a better shot and make it.

[thecampster]

26 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Let me say this first...I'm not here to argue with anyone about how to better run the offense, because I probably agree with anything and everything that you could possibly say.  However, my take is that all of the ill-advised 3's from Trae boil down to accountability.  There just isn't anyone on this team that can check him.  Going back to the playoffs, yes we did well...but as a team we made it harder than it had to be by constantly missing wide open shots - many after Trae drew attention and created them.  This same issue allows teams to over-commit to Trae on a nightly basis with an uncomfortable amount of success. 

If there were another alpha on this team, there is no way he could get away with that shot.  Period!!!  Because now there's a guy who can get a better shot, make an open shot (pretty much guaranteed), or create a better opportunity for Trae.  He will also have the support of the team.  It's just a different dynamic.

Trae is great at getting others involved and you can see him putting forth the effort - and even passing up the ill advised shot at times to set someone up.  There are times when the offense stalls though and you can see him taking control.  He knows he can hit that shot, so he's going to take it rather than fight the defense or suffer through the offensive lapse. Another point to consider is that he is going to take the blame whether he shoots or not.  I'm not defending his shot selection as much as I'm suggesting what's going through his head.  It's damned if I do/don't scenario and it's a good bet that he's going to shoot it.  It's not the same when you KNOW someone else can get a better shot and make it.

This....with emphasis!

 

Its why Kevin is driving me crazy this season. He has everything to be the 3rd option and a good one. He has everything to be "the other guy" when Trae's opportunities break down, get trapped.  He has to start believing in himself and demanding those opportunities. Kevin is a nice guy, to a fault. I want to see more out of him....more self belief, more cockiness, more hutzpah.

Edited December 19, 2021 by thecampster

[Final_quest]

Not sure what the recent stats are, but when this has come up before they showed he actually hits it at a pretty good rate.  Because it forces the defense to play him tighter close to half court it opens the floor for easy floaters and lobs.  In short I’ve always believed the juice is worth the squeeze.  

[JayBirdHawk]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:28 AM, Wretch said:

Let me say this first...I'm not here to argue with anyone about how to better run the offense, because I probably agree with anything and everything that you could possibly say.  However, my take is that all of the ill-advised 3's from Trae boil down to accountability.  There just isn't anyone on this team that can check him.  Going back to the playoffs, yes we did well...but as a team we made it harder than it had to be by constantly missing wide open shots - many after Trae drew attention and created them.  This same issue allows teams to over-commit to Trae on a nightly basis with an uncomfortable amount of success. 

If there were another alpha on this team, there is no way he could get away with that shot.  Period.  Because now there's a guy who can get a better shot, make an open shot (pretty much guaranteed), or create a better opportunity for Trae.  He will also have the support of the team.  It's just a different dynamic.

Trae is great at getting others involved and you can see him putting forth the effort - and even passing up the ill advised shot at times to set someone up.  There are times when the offense stalls though and you can see him taking control.  He knows he can hit that shot, so he's going to take it rather than fight the defense or suffer through the offensive lapse. Another point to consider is that he is going to take the blame whether he shoots or not.  I'm not defending his shot selection as much as I'm suggesting what's going through his head.  It's damned if I do/don't scenario and it's a good bet that he's going to shoot it.  It's not the same when you KNOW someone else can get a better shot and make it.

 

Sounds like this is/should be a very similar approach with Trae.

Quote

Borrego likens the process to what Popovich went through with Argentine guard Manu Ginóbili: The coach walked the fine line between holding Ginóbili accountable for mistakes and allowing him to flex his creativity. “Both Melo and Manu are fearless,” says Borrego. “The challenge is fitting that fearless spirit within a system.” Charlotte has veterans like forward Gordon Hayward and guard Terry Rozier, but Borrego tells Ball: You are the general. You have to control the gym. When they watch film together, it’s usually clips of split-second decisions Ball makes. “I say to him all the time, his basketball IQ is going to continue to grow,” says Borrego. “He has great feel, great instinct. Now it’s about the IQ growth in understanding the league and personnel, not only of his teammates but of who we’re playing, who we want to attack.”

 

– 

 

[Diesel]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:28 AM, Wretch said:

Let me say this first...I'm not here to argue with anyone about how to better run the offense, because I probably agree with anything and everything that you could possibly say.  However, my take is that all of the ill-advised 3's from Trae boil down to accountability.  There just isn't anyone on this team that can check him.  Going back to the playoffs, yes we did well...but as a team we made it harder than it had to be by constantly missing wide open shots - many after Trae drew attention and created them.  This same issue allows teams to over-commit to Trae on a nightly basis with an uncomfortable amount of success. 

If there were another alpha on this team, there is no way he could get away with that shot.  Period.  Because now there's a guy who can get a better shot, make an open shot (pretty much guaranteed), or create a better opportunity for Trae.  He will also have the support of the team.  It's just a different dynamic.

Trae is great at getting others involved and you can see him putting forth the effort - and even passing up the ill advised shot at times to set someone up.  There are times when the offense stalls though and you can see him taking control.  He knows he can hit that shot, so he's going to take it rather than fight the defense or suffer through the offensive lapse. Another point to consider is that he is going to take the blame whether he shoots or not.  I'm not defending his shot selection as much as I'm suggesting what's going through his head.  It's damned if I do/don't scenario and it's a good bet that he's going to shoot it.  It's not the same when you KNOW someone else can get a better shot and make it.

I agree...

But I have wondered...

If we had another alpha like PG13.... would it cause Trae to self-silence?  Would he shrink in the moment?  I agree though, there's nobody on the team to check him and there's not a strong enough vet presence on the team to make these guys be more serious.   

The Warriors had Iguodala. 

The Bulls went out and got Bill Cartwright.  For Charles Oakley.

The Spurs had David Robinson, Jerome Kersey, Mario Ellie.

It still takes having some maturity on the team.  Thus far we have been reliant on Gallo, LouWill and Solo.   These are hungry guys.. But they are not CP3 hungry.  Nor do I think that there voice is going to mean more than Trae's right now.   

 

 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

I agree...

But I have wondered...

If we had another alpha like PG13.... would it cause Trae to self-silence?  Would he shrink in the moment?  I agree though, there's nobody on the team to check him and there's not a strong enough vet presence on the team to make these guys be more serious.   

The Warriors had Iguodala. 

The Bulls went out and got Bill Cartwright.  For Charles Oakley.

The Spurs had David Robinson, Jerome Kersey, Mario Ellie.

It still takes having some maturity on the team.  Thus far we have been reliant on Gallo, LouWill and Solo.   These are hungry guys.. But they are not CP3 hungry.  Nor do I think that there voice is going to mean more than Trae's right now.   

 

 

Whatever worry I have for Trae, this isn't among them.