Would KAT fit with the Hawks?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Well, Because he can step back and shoot the outside shot, he has a skillset similar to JC and he's a bigger and better scorer.  If we lose JC in the trade, we lose a guy who seems to be the heart of the team.   Chemistry wise, I don't know how that will turn out.  Defensively is where the big questions come in.   Even though he's bigger, I don't know if he's a better defender than JC. 

Right now, we are at the Point that picks are not that important to us. 

If the Trade was Cam/JC and a first for KAT and a 2nd or something... I can see us not being hurt with what we lost.. but does it make us much better???  I dont know.   

Because I don't know I'm kind of ambivalent in this matter.   I like JC a lot.  However, If KAT stays motivated he's better offensively than JC.   BUT I don't think that solves any of our problems... so I guess I think I would rather keep Cam and JC.

 

Talent > Heart

If you are the heart of a team, and your team is .500, does a strong heart matter?

Once again, I'm not advocating trading JC.  But if we're talking about acquiring a potential Hall of Fame talent in his prime, in exchange for JC, you do that without blinking an eye.

This team is defensively.   

And when Trae goes out of the game, we are mostly  offensively.

Will more heart keep us from being  ?

Or will more talent clean that  up?

 

[terrell]

4 hours ago, hawkman said:

He absolutely fits but it will hurt the Hawks' depth significantly. I'd hate to see JC go because I'd rather pair him with KAT. I'm still bullish on the young wings. I feel like the Hawks would be selling low on Cam or Hunter if either gets traded this season.

Too much depth causes Nate to run his stupid all bench lineups anyway... lol

Edited January 7, 2022 by terrell

[Diesel]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Talent > Heart

If you are the heart of a team, and your team is .500, does a strong heart matter?

Once again, I'm not advocating trading JC.  But if we're talking about acquiring a potential Hall of Fame talent in his prime, in exchange for JC, you do that without blinking an eye.

This team is defensively.   

And when Trae goes out of the game, we are mostly  offensively.

Will more heart keep us from being  ?

Or will more talent clean that  up?

 

How does KAT help our defense?

To get KAT, we have to give up CAM who is good defensively?

So in essence, we're becoming worst defensively because KAT is not good defensively either. 

Our problem is not offense.  We have the most efficient offense in the league and the second best offense in the league.  So really, the problem is defense.

Getting KAT and Losing CAM and JC (who is not a bad defensive player either) means that we're giving up Defense for More offense.  We're giving up a less injured player in JC for a more injured player in KAT.  Over the last two seasons, KAT has missed 38% of his games.  He has had continual problems with his right knee.  For a big man, that's a consideration. 

It's not that we're losing heart... as I said, I am ambivalent about that... but when I thought further about the loss on defense.. I can't go with that. 

 

 

[Sothron]

47 minutes ago, Diesel said:

How does KAT help our defense?

To get KAT, we have to give up CAM who is good defensively?

So in essence, we're becoming worst defensively because KAT is not good defensively either. 

Our problem is not offense.  We have the most efficient offense in the league and the second best offense in the league.  So really, the problem is defense.

Getting KAT and Losing CAM and JC (who is not a bad defensive player either) means that we're giving up Defense for More offense.  We're giving up a less injured player in JC for a more injured player in KAT.  Over the last two seasons, KAT has missed 38% of his games.  He has had continual problems with his right knee.  For a big man, that's a consideration. 

It's not that we're losing heart... as I said, I am ambivalent about that... but when I thought further about the loss on defense.. I can't go with that. 

 

 

KAT didn't miss any games at all until he had covid and a legit injury. he's not a health risk. And no offense to JC but he's not exactly Draymond Green out there. 

[Atlantaholic]

I love how deeply we've gotten into the JC, KAT convo when in reality it would take a package around Trae Young to even get Minny to pick up the phone. 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, hazer said:

Hey leave ole Hazey outta this

That’s who I thought as soon as I read it too. You’ve been quiet this year @hazer hope all is well man. 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

Towns is not a winner.

I didn’t wanna say it. Lol. I mean, you could argue that Garnett was in the same boat as Towns, minus the the WCFin 2004 with Spree and Sam I am.

But even back then I wanted the Hawks to get KG despite not having a winning track record, there was something about him, I don’t get the same feeling with KAT.

 

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Talent > Heart

they ask this in 2K too? I think Brian Anderson asks Grant Hill and Hill says talent also. 

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

so I guess I think I would rather keep Cam and JC.

Yup same. I see great things in Cam and JC is a lot of our heart and hustle. We may have to just move Gallo and Dieng or something.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

KAT didn't miss any games at all until he had covid and a legit injury. he's not a health risk. And no offense to JC but he's not exactly Draymond Green out there. 

Nope... never said that JC was Close to Green.  I said he was good.  My point was about losing JC and Cam... Cam is a much better defender.  

My point is our problem this year has been defense.  Getting KAT does not address that because he's not a good defender.  While in the process, we lose two guys who we can say together represents the loss of players who gives good efforts on defense. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I didn’t wanna say it. Lol. I mean, you could argue that Garnett was in the same boat as Towns, minus the the WCFin 2004 with Spree and Sam I am.

But even back then I wanted the Hawks to get KG despite not having a winning track record, there was something about him, I don’t get the same feeling with KAT.

 

 

Do not ever in life compare KAT to KG!!!

IF KG had never won a championship.  If he had stayed in Minny and never got to the finals... He was still first Ballot hall of Famer. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Yup same. I see great things in Cam and JC is a lot of our heart and hustle. We may have to just move Gallo and Dieng or something.

We agree here. 

I don't know the actual contractual obligations but if Gallo's contract can get us somebody better than Gallo (for us) then yeah, let's move him... but don't get me wrong here... if Gallo's shot comes back around and we don't take a hit because of his contract or if we benefit because of his contract then let's stay Pat.

Until last night, the players who I would consider moving first are:  Bogi and Kev. 

But...

If a Gallo/Bogi/Cam can get us PG13... that's a deal I would take.   Same type of deal for somebody like Ben Simmons. 

[MarylandHawk]

The only way I see him fitting in is with OO17 starting along side him. I think that has the potential to be a better combo than CC and JBap.  That is really risky though to try and bank on that. 

[Final_quest]

Exactly the point Talent > Heart.  We overvalue our players and think of guys as future stars who aren't in that class.  When we have a guy on our team that is the best offensive weapon in the NBA, we don't wait for pretenders to develop.  There are 6 guys in development and we have 3-4 contracts to move.  How are so many people against making a move that consolidates some of that?

There's a lot of theories as to why we're underperforming and reasons to be patient, but the team's GM goes on public record saying we need to shake things up.  I thought more people would come to reality after hearing from the GM and inside sources.  They don't seem to be suggesting a minor tweak.  This is Toronto moving Derozan.  The shock to me is that we don't even have a Derozan level player to trade, and a lot of people are still against it.  We love our B movie talent. 

[kg01]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

 

Do not ever in life compare KAT to KG!!!

IF KG had never won a championship.  If he had stayed in Minny and never got to the finals... He was still first Ballot hall of Famer. 

Because the HOF is watered down and a generally terrible representation of all-time basketball talent and because Towns will fall under the international player designation ... he'll be a HOFer too.  Won't have to win a thing. 

[kg01]

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

You are dead ass wrong about both. So...

Eh, their w/l record says I'm not.  So...

10 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Trae wasn't a winner until he was on a good team with actual NBA players. Same for Zach. Same for KaT.

Never liked the whole "he's not a winning player" logic. Just feels lazy. No offense intended. 

It's only lazy if the beholder chooses not to truly assess what's being said.  Despite the above snark-astic response to my guy soth (which is really just designed to irk his bejesuses), calling someone a 'losing player' doesn't simply mean "duh dey lost games, thus they are a loser".  That's lazy.

For me, I look at how guys play.  Losing players tend to exhibit questionable habits or seem to lack 'something' that players who've won typically have.

Towns is questionable for me.  As was Lavine.  Lavine, to his credit, has had a reputation as a hard worker.  But he never seemed to play 'with' his team.  Seemed really insular.  That's why I had a low opinion of him.  There was a change in him, to me, last year.  And his supporting cast elevated.  It's clear how talented he is.

Could Towns benefit from a change of scenery and being placed in more of a 'winning' environment?  Sure.

So what's the problem?  It's two-fold.  One, we're not a 'winning' environment right now so how would he be a 'fix' to that?  ETA: Objectively, he's never seen what it takes to win so asking him to lead that effort here is ... questionable.

Two, if we give up what it should take to get him here, we have no depth.

All in all, we'd be signing up to be Timberwolves south.  I'm cool on that.

Edited January 7, 2022 by kg01

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

I love how deeply we've gotten into the JC, KAT convo when in reality it would take a package around Trae Young to even get Minny to pick up the phone. 

 

I would say pre-Anthony Edwards, that would be the case.

But now, if they think that Ant-Man could be the engine of the team, he'll need very good complimentary pieces around him that could make the team better as a whole. 

 Trading KAT would signify that change in mindset for that franchise. They would need more than JC + Hunter/Cam + 1st rounders to complete the transformation.  But it could work for them, especially if Ant really turns into that transformational player.  Right now though, they're just looking to be a playoff level team. and may not have championship aspirations.

For us it's different.  If we are in "win now" mode, we need high level players around Trae, to get us over the hump.  It's been proven that if you have high level players, you can put specialty role players around those guys ( either sharpshooters or high level defenders ) to get you to championship level.

[kg01]

If I'm MIN and I wanna build around Edwards, I'd rather do so with Towns on the roster.

[Sothron]

I know Travis has talked to them for over a year about KAT but I don't know if they can trade him. I would not trade him if I was Minnesota. They have a team that is playing defense (including KAT) and is winning games. They could blow things up, sure, and do a soft rebuild around Ant. They have been doing that all of KAT's career. Where has it gotten them?

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Because the HOF is watered down and a generally terrible representation of all-time basketball talent and because Towns will fall under the international player designation ... he'll be a HOFer too.  Won't have to win a thing. 

FALSE...