Would KAT fit with the Hawks?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Wondering how many are on the side of selling a bit of the farm, well a lot of it in this case to land KAT. Just wondering which side of the fence everyone is on.

Thoughts? 
 

ps Selling the farm=Cam or Hunter and JC and possibly a first or somewhere around that cost.

 

The hardest thing to do is to give up on something you love, to possibly gain something better.

There is risk in everything.  But if you think the risk is worth it, go after it.

 

Most championship teams have 5 elements

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level
• A top 10 defense
• A top 10 offense

 

How many of these boxes can the current Hawks honestly check off?   

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Another name in this equation, Jalen Johnson.  He is beefy and could be part of the bigs rotation.  Jalen fits with either KAT or OO.  

 

Or he could be dealt in a package for KAT.  Matter of fact, both rookies are in play as an extra piece in a major trade.

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level
• A top 10 defense
• A top 10 offense

 

How many of these boxes can the current Hawks honestly check off?   

Trae checks the first box.  Our wings and OO are still too young to know if the second bullet is true.  JC probably fits the bill for the 3rd bullet.  Top 10 defense is where we struggle and KAT does not fix that.  We will always have a top 10 offense as long as we have Trae, and this is the reason I think we need elite defenders, not more scoring.  You can have 5 of the greatest scorers of all time on the same roster but you still only get 1 shot every possession.

[Sothron]

Here's the real question: is there any way at 24 years old Collins is going to be on the same level of a player that KAT is at 26 years old? Hell to the no. KAT gives us a legit superstar player to put next to Trae. You have two guys that alone are worth 50-60 points plus the assists they generate. KAT is a great passer as a center. He's a three level scorer. He's a good rebounder and shot blocker. And yes, his defense has improved. 

KAT would be a great fit with Trae. He's starving to win. He has never cared about his personal stats. There's no ego problem of him coming onto this team unlike Butler who has a massive ego and ruined that Twolves team with it. 

I would trad JC and Cam to get him. Not JC and Hunter because Hunter when healthy is easily our best perimeter defender and he would feast on the double teams Trae/KAT would generate.

[kg01]

Towns is not a winner.

I said the same about Zachary Lavine.

Do what you will with the preceding information.

That is all.

[Atlantaholic]

54 minutes ago, Watchman said:

We would be giving up a lot more than we would be getting back.   I'm opposed to making this type of trade.

Even at that cost I'm not sure the Wolves take that deal anyway.

[Jdawgflow]

32 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The hardest thing to do is to give up on something you love, to possibly gain something better.

There is risk in everything.  But if you think the risk is worth it, go after it.

 

Most championship teams have 5 elements

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level
• A top 10 defense
• A top 10 offense

 

How many of these boxes can the current Hawks honestly check off?   

 

1 & 5 only.

[Atlantaholic]

28 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Here's the real question: is there any way at 24 years old Collins is going to be on the same level of a player that KAT is at 26 years old? Hell to the no. KAT gives us a legit superstar player to put next to Trae. You have two guys that alone are worth 50-60 points plus the assists they generate. KAT is a great passer as a center. He's a three level scorer. He's a good rebounder and shot blocker. And yes, his defense has improved. 

KAT would be a great fit with Trae. He's starving to win. He has never cared about his personal stats. There's no ego problem of him coming onto this team unlike Butler who has a massive ego and ruined that Twolves team with it. 

I would trad JC and Cam to get him. Not JC and Hunter because Hunter when healthy is easily our best perimeter defender and he would feast on the double teams Trae/KAT would generate.

Advanced stats don't like KAT, at all. I know playing on bad teams will skew those stats regardless of how much they attempt to account for it, but still. Collins is a low usage player who still puts up around 20-10 per36mins on fantastic efficiency, and his defense is hands down better than KATs. I do think KAT is an upgrade but the question is if he is an upgrade worth taking at the additional cost he represents. I'm not 100% sold that's the case. Put it another way, the question is not if KAT for Collins is worth it, the question is whether Collins + another 13-15 million dollar a year player for KAT is worth it, and overall I think that's very questionable. 

[hazer]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My magic 8-ball says

 

 

Hey leave ole Hazey outta this

[Final_quest]

38 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The hardest thing to do is to give up on something you love, to possibly gain something better.

There is risk in everything.  But if you think the risk is worth it, go after it.

 

Most championship teams have 5 elements

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level
• A top 10 defense
• A top 10 offense

 

How many of these boxes can the current Hawks honestly check off?   

 

I love this post.  It’s actually lower standards than most champions.  The 2nd guy is usually, like 90%, a HOF level player.

I’ve said it enough, we need to be aggressive in acquiring that player.  We have a lot of good resources to make it happen.  

[Final_quest]

8 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Advanced stats don't like KAT, at all. I know playing on bad teams will skew those stats regardless of how much they attempt to account for it, but still. Collins is a low usage player who still puts up around 20-10 per36mins on fantastic efficiency, and his defense is hands down better than KATs. I do think KAT is an upgrade but the question is if he is an upgrade worth taking at the additional cost he represents. I'm not 100% sold that's the case. Put it another way, the question is not if KAT for Collins is worth it, the question is whether Collins + another 13-15 million dollar a year player for KAT is worth it, and overall I think that's very questionable. 

Has KAT ever played with a PG like Trae who leads the league in lob passes?  Trae makes our guys more efficient.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The hardest thing to do is to give up on something you love, to possibly gain something better.

There is risk in everything.  But if you think the risk is worth it, go after it.

 

Most championship teams have 5 elements

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level
• A top 10 defense
• A top 10 offense

 

How many of these boxes can the current Hawks honestly check off?   

 

 

Most championship teams have 5 elements

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level
• A top 10 defense
• A top 10 offense

 

How many of these boxes can the current Hawks honestly check off? 

 

And just to drive this point home further, I'll go through some of the current playoff teams in the EAST

 

CHICAGO

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( YES - DeRozan, should legit get top 3 MVP votes this season )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( YES - Lavine, who sometimes plays at superstar level )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( NO )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( close, but NO )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( YES )

 

BROOKLYN

 

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( YES - Durant )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( YES - Harden )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( YES - Irving, but not if he only plays road games )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( CURRENTLY YES . . . 7th in defense, believe it or not )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( YES . . and would be even more lethal with Joe Harris )

 

MILWAUKEE

 

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( YES - Giannis )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( YES - Middleton )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( YES - Holiday )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( YES - 9th in the NBA right now, but not as stout as last season )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( YES  - 5th in the NBA right now )

 

MIAMI

 

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( NO - Jimmy's HOF credentials are borderline, and I wouldn't consider him a superstar )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( YES - Jimmy is definitely All-Star caliber )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( YES - either Lowry or Herro can do it )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( close, but NO )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( YES, and even more lethal when Duncan Robinson is also making shots )

 

PHILADEPLPHIA

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . .  ( YES - Embiid )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( NO )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( YES - Harris . . but even that is borderline this season )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( NO )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( NO )

 

CLEVELAND

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( NO )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( NO )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( YES - Allen's defensive impact + offense = all-star caliber )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( YES - 3rd in the league )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( NO )

 

TORONTO

 

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( NO )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( YES - VanVleet has been balling this season )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( YES - Siakam )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( NO )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( YES - barely )

 

CHARLOTTE

 

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( NO )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( PROBABLY YES - LaMelo )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( YES - Bridges/Hayward )
• A top 10 defense . . . ( HELL NAW )
• A top 10 offense . . . ( YES - #3 in the league )

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, Final_quest said:

Has KAT ever played with a PG like Trae who leads the league in lob passes?  Trae makes our guys more efficient.

But that's not really KAT's games. He's more of a pick and popper, back to the basket and ISO player than a pick and roller.

[Sothron]

31 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Towns is not a winner.

I said the same about Zachary Lavine.

Do what you will with the preceding information.

That is all.

You are dead ass wrong about both. So...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I love this post.  It’s actually lower standards than most champions.  The 2nd guy is usually, like 90%, a HOF level player.

I’ve said it enough, we need to be aggressive in acquiring that player.  We have a lot of good resources to make it happen.  

That is true that the 2nd guy is damn near a HOF himself.

[REHawksFan]

36 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Towns is not a winner.

I said the same about Zachary Lavine.

Do what you will with the preceding information.

That is all.

Trae wasn't a winner until he was on a good team with actual NBA players. Same for Zach. Same for KaT.

Never liked the whole "he's not a winning player" logic. Just feels lazy. No offense intended. 

[JeffS17]

19 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

CHICAGO

• Superstar/Hall of Fame talent . . . ( YES - DeRozan, should legit get top 3 MVP votes this season )
• A 2nd guy who is at least All-Star level . . . ( YES - Lavine, who sometimes plays at superstar level )
• A 3rd guy who can elevate his game to All-Star level . . . ( NO )

Vuc is pretty much the exact definition of this.  Two time all star that can take over the occasional game

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Wondering how many are on the side of selling a bit of the farm, well a lot of it in this case to land KAT. Just wondering which side of the fence everyone is on.

Thoughts? 
 

ps Selling the farm=Cam or Hunter and JC and possibly a first or somewhere around that cost.

Well, Because he can step back and shoot the outside shot, he has a skillset similar to JC and he's a bigger and better scorer.  If we lose JC in the trade, we lose a guy who seems to be the heart of the team.   Chemistry wise, I don't know how that will turn out.  Defensively is where the big questions come in.   Even though he's bigger, I don't know if he's a better defender than JC. 

Right now, we are at the Point that picks are not that important to us. 

If the Trade was Cam/JC and a first for KAT and a 2nd or something... I can see us not being hurt with what we lost.. but does it make us much better???  I dont know.   

Because I don't know I'm kind of ambivalent in this matter.   I like JC a lot.  However, If KAT stays motivated he's better offensively than JC.   BUT I don't think that solves any of our problems... so I guess I think I would rather keep Cam and JC.

[Diesel]

 Just to clarify..

He fits but I wouldn't do the trade. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

26 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Vuc is pretty much the exact definition of this.  Two time all star that can take over the occasional game

 

So if that's the case, Chicago has 4 of the 5 elements . . . and on the verge of having all 5 elements if the defense gets better.

I wonder if their defense was top 10 before Caruso went down?

More than likely it was.

 

Chicago has 3 good to great offensive players, surrounded by a lockdown defender in Caruso, and a PG in Ball that can defend too.