If Nate won't play JJ with JC out indefinitely and Gallo gimpy...

[Hawkmoor]

I been saying this since the first time I saw Jaylen in summer league.  The kid is the real deal.  The best prospect I've seen the Hawks draft outside of Trae Young since Dominique Wilkins.

[sillent]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:49 AM, REHawksFan said:

....then he should pack his bags and be shown the door.  Is he really going to take the position that he trusts TLC and Knox (who have PROVEN to be marginal NBA players in their careers) over the unknown potential of JJ?  If so, then we are royally screwed as long as Nate is at the helm.  The whole "stuck in his ways" crap is just writer code for he'd rather lose doing it HIS way than try something else.  

Jami gonna be like....

 

https://theathletic.com/3192618/2022/03/18/i-do-see-a-mini-lebron-in-him-so-why-cant-hawks-rookie-jalen-johnson-crack-atlantas-rotation/

 

I would blame Nate but it actually looks like something he and Travis discussed before the season started.

Nate was the same guy last year that opted to give OO more minutes and it panned out so I don't think he's fully opposed. We are just in a different position than we were last yr and possibly financial  reasons as well has kinda forced us to slow grow our youngsters so we can keep them in the budget with the rest of our talent. If they blossom to fast it doesn't just effect what they do on the court but the overall payroll and being able to keep the team together.

That's why Cam had to be traded even though most of us including Travis knew he was one of our best players and will only get better.

Do we want a deep talented team that can survive an 82 game season or a top heavy team with most of the weight being carried by our stars? Slow grooming our rooks allows the financial cycle to flow a little more naturally and leave us flexible. 

We just need guys to actually buy into the system enough *cough* Trae. When we do we tend to win no matter who's out there. When you're winning within the system it's hard to say Nate's way isn't working even if there could be other options.

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, sillent said:

I would blame Nate but it actually looks like something he and Travis discussed before the season started.

Nate was the same guy last year that opted to give OO more minutes and it panned out so I don't think he's fully opposed. We are just in a different position than we were last yr and possibly financial  reasons as well has kinda forced us to slow grow our youngsters so we can keep them in the budget with the rest of our talent. If they blossom to fast it doesn't just effect what they do on the court but the overall payroll and being able to keep the team together.

That's why Cam had to be traded even though most of us including Travis knew he was one of our best players and will only get better.

Do we want a deep talented team that can survive an 82 game season or a top heavy team with most of the weight being carried by our stars? Slow grooming our rooks allows the financial cycle to flow a little more naturally and leave us flexible. 

We just need guys to actually buy into the system enough *cough* Trae. When we do we tend to win no matter who's out there. When you're winning within the system it's hard to say Nate's way isn't working even if there could be other options.

Disagree with this entirely.  The article I linked in the OP (and that @JayBirdHawk quoted) specifically stated that Travis had to force Nate to play OO last year so they could see what he had.  If left up to Nate, OO would never have gotten any run and would not have been used in the playoffs.  Now we see the same with JJ this year.  

What different position are we in? We were in the playoff last year and this year we are trying to be.  The young guys can absolutely be useful in achieving that goal.  Not playing JJ to see if he can help when JC is out and Gallo is oft-injured is idiotic.  

As for Cam, are you really arguing that he "had to be traded" because he "blossomed too soon"??  Really??  That's insane.  He had to be traded because he literally went to Travis and demanded a trade and then pouted when his role wasn't big enough.  If Cam has truly blossomed at this point then his career will be over before it ever starts.  He's a bit player that needs more time on the court so that he can blossom.  

Finally, I don't know what to tell you if you actually think Trae is the reason they are losing.  That's just dumb. Nate's way is old, antiquated, and proven not to work.  The hope was that he had changed his ways after last years success.  But now we are all realizing a leopard doesn't change his spots.  Nate is who he is.  And he's the same guy that refuses to play young guys unless he is forced by management to do so.  

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, sillent said:

Nate was the same guy last year that opted to give OO more minutes and it panned out so I don't think he's fully opposed

Nope:

Now, Okongwu is one of McMillan’s personal favorites. But Okongwu eventually found his way onto the court because the front office advised McMillan that he needed to play Okongwu at least a few minutes — if his five-minute stint wasn’t good, he didn’t have to put him back out there. McMillan hasn’t been told by the front office that he needs to play Johnson — at least not yet.

[Spud2nique]

46 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nope:

Now, Okongwu is one of McMillan’s personal favorites. But Okongwu eventually found his way onto the court because the front office advised McMillan that he needed to play Okongwu at least a few minutes — if his five-minute stint wasn’t good, he didn’t have to put him back out there. McMillan hasn’t been told by the front office that he needs to play Johnson — at least not yet.

This is sad. When a head coach needs to be told to do something that everyone including the fan base knows is right. 
 

Nate you ain’t Nellie brother, comon don’t hate on the young guns, distribute minutes based on performance please not  years of service in the league.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

This is sad. When a head coach needs to be told to do something that everyone including the fan base knows is right. 
 

Nate you ain’t Nellie brother, comon don’t hate on the young guns, distribute minutes based on performance please not  years of service in the league.

Hey.. if we go new coach shopping in the summer, let's consider Fizdale or Cassell or Hammon.

 

[Final_quest]

Jalen looks like the best athlete on the team.  Can't wait to see him actually play NBA minutes. 

Silver lining to me is there is no reason to believe he's a bust.  He needs an opportunity.  I see beyond the last 12 games of the season and get excited about him and Cooper as assets.  

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Jalen looks like the best athlete on the team.  Can't wait to see him actually play NBA minutes. 

Silver lining to me is there is no reason to believe he's a bust.  He needs an opportunity.  I see beyond the last 12 games of the season and get excited about him and Cooper as assets.  

I'm on the play Jalen train... But let's say one thing..

His G-League returns are not going to translate the same on the big boy stage (IMO).   I see a player who has superior size and superior athleticism outworking everybody else.   I don't see him being superiorly skilled.   That being the case, when you come to the big boi stage... I don't see him turning in dominant performances.    I see it being a place for him to learn a little more and him giving us something.  But that's my point... He can give us something. 

I know there are some of yall thinking.. if we just played Jalen, he would come up and average 20/10.. and would make JC tradable.   That's the fairy tale.

 

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I know there are some of yall thinking.. if we just played Jalen, he would come up and average 20/10.. and would make JC tradable.   That's the fairy tale.

 

That is the fairy tale.  I think most people just want to see him get minutes to go through the NBA learning curve.

It never fails that people believe a fantasy with young players.  The difference from what I saw in Jalen is athleticism and body control.  Just haven't seen that from one of our rookies in a while.  He looks like he has some Ant Edwards and Josh Smith. 
 

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

That is the fairy tale.  I think most people just want to see him get minutes to go through the NBA learning curve.

It never fails that people believe a fantasy with young players.  The difference from what I saw in Jalen is athleticism and body control.  Just haven't seen that from one of our rookies in a while.  He looks like he has some Ant Edwards and Josh Smith. 
 

That's high praise.  I remember the time it took Smoove to become as skilled as he was athletic.  It took time... and it was gone as soon as it came because of his BBIQ.   If JJ could come up, give us 15-20 minutes and give us 11-12 ppg, I would be thrilled at this stage. 

[Gray Mule]

Seems that we all can agree that JJ is a real athlete.  That's one point in his favor.  He's a great big, stout old boy.  That's one point in his favor.  He's a very hard worker.  Point.  He scores easily in the G League. Point (Basket the same size and height as NBA)

Edited March 20, 2022 by Gray Mule

[Gray Mule]

With all his natural ability, we expect JJ to make it in the NBA.  We expect Diesel's dream of 20-10 to come true.  Just not this season.  Not enough time.  Not enough playing time available.  He couldn't do this in the very limited minutes we expect him to get.

On the other hand, we expect him to fit in with the other Hawks and be a real asset to the team.  All this takes time and there's not enough time left this season for anything great to happen.  A small bite in this apple would be nice right now.  Just a few meaningful minutes per game.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Gray Mule

[Peoriabird]

Signing Nate to that contract is beginning to look like a mistake

[Iverwig]

Wasn’t some of his issues with Indiana sticking with the same lineups? Like Peoriabird said it’s looking like Nate is a mistake. However, I get why they had to give him the position. 

[macdaddy]

Yeah that's my thought about JJ is that he's similar to Josh Smith but can shoot.  Which sounds great (and it is) but Josh was extremely raw when he came in.  He just came into a terrible team where he could play through the rough stuff.  And there was no gleague.  

Hopefully in a few years JJ and OO are wreaking havoc for us. 

[sillent]

21 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Disagree with this entirely.  The article I linked in the OP (and that @JayBirdHawk quoted) specifically stated that Travis had to force Nate to play OO last year so they could see what he had.  If left up to Nate, OO would never have gotten any run and would not have been used in the playoffs.  Now we see the same with JJ this year.  

What different position are we in? We were in the playoff last year and this year we are trying to be.  The young guys can absolutely be useful in achieving that goal.  Not playing JJ to see if he can help when JC is out and Gallo is oft-injured is idiotic.  

As for Cam, are you really arguing that he "had to be traded" because he "blossomed too soon"??  Really??  That's insane.  He had to be traded because he literally went to Travis and demanded a trade and then pouted when his role wasn't big enough.  If Cam has truly blossomed at this point then his career will be over before it ever starts.  He's a bit player that needs more time on the court so that he can blossom.  

Finally, I don't know what to tell you if you actually think Trae is the reason they are losing.  That's just dumb. Nate's way is old, antiquated, and proven not to work.  The hope was that he had changed his ways after last years success.  But now we are all realizing a leopard doesn't change his spots.  Nate is who he is.  And he's the same guy that refuses to play young guys unless he is forced by management to do so.  

So I guess the front office told Nate to play Onyeka when Nate was still an assistant for LP 

The whole video puts it all into perspective on Nate's feelings for young guys but if you want to get to the point of Onyeka check of out around the 6:15 mark of the video. 

 

And by the way I didn't know Nate was still out there playing and running the team every game. The coach can only scheme and create plays. The players have to execute.

 

[Diesel]

One thing that will remain true..

1.  It's the coaches fault when we lose. 

2.   The coach gets no credit when we win...

[REHawksFan]

27 minutes ago, sillent said:

So I guess the front office told Nate to play Onyeka when Nate was still an assistant for LP 

The whole video puts it all into perspective on Nate's feelings for young guys but if you want to get to the point of Onyeka check of out around the 6:15 mark of the video. 

 

And by the way I didn't know Nate was still out there playing and running the team every game. The coach can only scheme and create plays. The players have to execute.

 

Did you expect Nate to say anything differently? Is he gonna say, "well I'm only playing him because it's a directive from the front office?"

Between Nates coach speak or the beat writers statement, I think I'm inclined to believe the beat writer. Especially when it aligns exactly with what we see now with JJ. Why would the beat writer lie about this?

[JayBirdHawk]

40 minutes ago, sillent said:

So I guess the front office told Nate to play Onyeka when Nate was still an assistant for LP 

The whole video puts it all into perspective on Nate's feelings for young guys but if you want to get to the point of Onyeka check of out around the 6:15 mark of the video. 

 

And by the way I didn't know Nate was still out there playing and running the team every game. The coach can only scheme and create plays. The players have to execute.

 

....Nate coached this game...LP was out for the birth of child.

What's telling for me.....when young guys play and get opportunities just go out and give all your energy and scrap don't worry about making mistakes, match minutes with veterans....

...but here's the rub....Jalen has not had that opportunity for minutes at all despite the injuries.

[REHawksFan]

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....Nate coached this game...LP was out for the birth of child.

What's telling for me.....when young guys play and get opportunities just go out and give all your energy and scrap don't worry about making mistakes, match minutes with veterans....

...but here's the rub....Jalen has not had that opportunity for minutes at all despite the injuries.

Also specifically says you have to use the 4 or 5 min you get well so that the coach is willing to increase it. That's exactly what Chris said in his article that the front office told him.

Nate also qualifies his response twice saying THIS season and THIS year.  Doesn't appear to be operating under the same mindset now. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by REHawksFan