If Nate won't play JJ with JC out indefinitely and Gallo gimpy...

[sillent]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....Nate coached this game...LP was out for the birth of child.

What's telling for me.....when young guys play and get opportunities just go out and give all your energy and scrap don't worry about making mistakes, match minutes with veterans....

...but here's the rub....Jalen has not had that opportunity for minutes at all despite the injuries.

Exactly. Meaning it's not just Nate's say so on why the rooks aren't playing. That was a whole front office discussion before this season started and they opted on not needing to play the young guys early like we have in the past. This is the 1st yr in a while that we haven't just thrown young guys to the fire.

[sillent]

13 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Did you expect Nate to say anything differently? Is he gonna say, "well I'm only playing him because it's a directive from the front office?"

Between Nates coach speak or the beat writers statement, I think I'm inclined to believe the beat writer. Especially when it aligns exactly with what we see now with JJ. Why would the beat writer lie about this?

That was before Nate became our interim head coach.. Nate was still under Lloyd Pierce then. He could have kept them young guys on the bench like LP was doing but as soon as he got an opportunity to sub he gave them more minutes. Nobody's asking the assistant coach for much but to hold down the fort. 

[Gray Mule]

So, In a game where shooting and rebounding was greatly needed there was no opportunity to insert Jalen Johnson and let him try his talents.  Where turnover after turnover and one lost rebound after another was not reason enough, When?  Never!  

Edited March 21, 2022 by Gray Mule

[bird_dirt]

16 hours ago, Diesel said:

One thing that will remain true..

1.  It's the coaches fault when we lose. 

2.   The coach gets no credit when we win...

I don't know about you, but I remember Nate getting all the credit for the wins last year when he took over. That's why he got that new contract in the off-season.

 

[Gray Mule]

6 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

I don't know about you, but I remember Nate getting all the credit for the wins last year when he took over. That's why he got that new contract in the off-season.

 

We know now.  Nate took the team of Lloyd Pierce, the plans of Lloyd Pierce and the coaching staff of Lloyd Pierce and brought them together for all those wins.  What happened?  Nate brought in his coaches, brought in his own team plans and ditched those of LP.

[REHawksFan]

5 hours ago, sillent said:

Exactly. Meaning it's not just Nate's say so on why the rooks aren't playing. That was a whole front office discussion before this season started and they opted on not needing to play the young guys early like we have in the past. This is the 1st yr in a while that we haven't just thrown young guys to the fire.

But they DO need the young guys.  That's the point.  The front office had to tell the coaching staff last year to play OO 5 minutes a game and see how he does.  If he earns the minutes then give him more.  Nate specifically quoted this in the clip you posted. This year, it may have been a front office & coaching decision to not do that but Nate needs to have the flexibility and awareness to call an audible when injuries happen and it's CLEARLY not working as planned.  

IF the Hawks were 49-23 and a TOP 3 seed in the East, then everyone would understand that JJ just couldn't break the rotation.  But they aren't.  They are 35-36 and playing TLC and Kevin Knox some nights because their starting PF is hurt and the backup is old and often gimpy.  

Nate has a history of not wanting to play young players. EVEN IF this year they started with some collective agreement that JJ would not play, there's ZERO reason for that stance to remain in effect given the reality of the way the season unfolded.  And NO ONE in the front office is prohibiting Nate from playing JJ if he actually had a desire to do so.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by REHawksFan

[thecampster]

In arguably a very small sample, the per 36 numbers this year say JJ could be a 15/9 player right now on better than average efficiency.  Take that for what its worth.

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

In arguably a very small sample, the per 36 numbers this year say JJ could be a 15/9 player right now on better than average efficiency.  Take that for what its worth.

Per 36..

[Atlantaholic]

We are struggling to get OO 20 minutes + I don't think there's a shot for JJ to ever play here lol. 

[JayBirdHawk]

22 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

We are struggling to get OO 20 minutes + I don't think there's a shot for JJ to ever play here lol. 

How sad is this? Just heard Nate on the radio and got me pissed even more. He talks about the two Pelicans 7 footer but mentioned Gallo and Hunter at the 4.....I just can't man, I just can't with this ish.

[JayBirdHawk]

Haa-haa, the radio has picked up on the 'the front office telling the coaching staff to play OO last year'

So tired of this stuff.

[Sothron]

Literally every other team in the NBA is playing rookies but us. Nate does not have the secret sauce. No matter what level of team you are at (championship, contender, playoff level, rebuild) you are ALWAYS in development stage.  You have to play rookies and young guys because at some point those players WILL BE your rotation players. 

Right now we know nothing about Jalen or Cooper at the NBA level. Nothing. Jalen Johnson has been literally called a mini Lebron by his G league coach but Nate still won't play him. Unreal. 

Nate needs to go. He's too stubborn for his own good.

[Gray Mule]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

 

Nate needs to go. He's too stubborn for his own good.

AMEN!

[Spud2nique]

At this point I’m concerned that JJ may have done something to Nate’s family. I don’t understand any other reason.

 

Don’t even get me started on OO. My boy. 

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Per 36..

LOL, I love Per 36, always have and you can't change my mind no matter how many scantily clad pictures of Selena Gomez you send.

 

[ShooterSays]

WHAT IF.....

The plan is to flip JJ and Coop this offseason and Travis believes it's better for there to only be tape of them tearing it up in the G League vs struggling in the NBA? 

[sillent]

8 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

But they DO need the young guys.  That's the point.  The front office had to tell the coaching staff last year to play OO 5 minutes a game and see how he does.  If he earns the minutes then give him more.  Nate specifically quoted this in the clip you posted. This year, it may have been a front office & coaching decision to not do that but Nate needs to have the flexibility and awareness to call an audible when injuries happen and it's CLEARLY not working as planned.  

IF the Hawks were 49-23 and a TOP 3 seed in the East, then everyone would understand that JJ just couldn't break the rotation.  But they aren't.  They are 35-36 and playing TLC and Kevin Knox some nights because their starting PF is hurt and the backup is old and often gimpy.  

Nate has a history of not wanting to play young players. EVEN IF this year they started with some collective agreement that JJ would not play, there's ZERO reason for that stance to remain in effect given the reality of the way the season unfolded.  And NO ONE in the front office is prohibiting Nate from playing JJ if he actually had a desire to do so.  

I agree with everything above the bold. Nate wasn't our coach then so I can't give you that unless they were going behind LP's back which I doubt since we have an upfront front office.

The 2 main issues that allow me to understand their decision making more than us fans is the fact that JJ isn't ready to be a difference maker on our team yet so playing him doesn't/wouldn't change that.

Before I start I know it's twisted and may not make sense to the average fan but our team is in the position that it wants to be in even currently. The head of our snake loves a challenge and gets up for the playoffs so I would not be surprised at all (actually I still expect it) if we win a championship.

In the words of JSmooth fans are fickle and won't remember or care just how bad our season is/was if we step up when it counts.

We still have all the pieces and have atleast made it a point to pretty much beat every team that would be a playoff threat when it counts so we really don't care who we face.

The fan in me would love to see the playoff matchups that are currently set which means we'd have to beat the Hornets, Miami, Boston/Chicago and then whoever out of the Bucks,76ers and Nets in the Eastern Finals.

The East is hands down better than the west this year and Nate does have an upper hand on Montey so far if it so happens to be the Suns.

I didn't mean to post this long but I guess this is my version of calm down. We're good. Let's let the rookies develop at a rookie pace so we can truly praise them later when they're ready.

[REHawksFan]

35 minutes ago, sillent said:

I agree with everything above the bold. Nate wasn't our coach then so I can't give you that unless they were going behind LP's back which I doubt since we have an upfront front office.

The 2 main issues that allow me to understand their decision making more than us fans is the fact that JJ isn't ready to be a difference maker on our team yet so playing him doesn't/wouldn't change that.

Before I start I know it's twisted and may not make sense to the average fan but our team is in the position that it wants to be in even currently. The head of our snake loves a challenge and gets up for the playoffs so I would not be surprised at all (actually I still expect it) if we win a championship.

In the words of JSmooth fans are fickle and won't remember or care just how bad our season is/was if we step up when it counts.

We still have all the pieces and have atleast made it a point to pretty much beat every team that would be a playoff threat when it counts so we really don't care who we face.

The fan in me would love to see the playoff matchups that are currently set which means we'd have to beat the Hornets, Miami, Boston/Chicago and then whoever out of the Bucks,76ers and Nets in the Eastern Finals.

The East is hands down better than the west this year and Nate does have an upper hand on Montey so far if it so happens to be the Suns.

I didn't mean to post this long but I guess this is my version of calm down. We're good. Let's let the rookies develop at a rookie pace so we can truly praise them later when they're ready.

The 2 bolded statements are the only parts of that worth responding to. The rest is just pie in the sky wishful thinking. 

First, you don't know JJ isn't ready to contribute. He hasn't been given any chance. This idea you have that this is some title team where a rookie can't develop is straight nonsense. Do you even know what you are saying? I mean nearly every other playoff team has played 1 or more rookies more than JJ has played this year. The assertion that the Hawks are above that somehow is asinine and frankly laughable if the reality of it all wasn't so damn depressing. 

And secondly,  the HAWKS will be going into next season with  a rookie that has zero experience and will be learning the ropes whereas Tor, Cleveland, BKN, Boston, Cha, Mia, and even Mil - all playoff teams btw - will have 2nd year players with more NBA experience than JJ. You talk about development but other teams are developing their players while still managing to put a playoff team on the floor. What a novel concept.

It's ridiculous. 

 

[REHawksFan]

Rookie minutes for East Top 10:

Miami - 922
Milwaukee - 502
Philly - 249
Boston - 76
Chicago - 1,992
Cleveland - 2,394
Toronto - 3,204
Brooklyn - 2,619
Charlotte - 609
Atlanta - 200

7 of the top 9 teams in the East can find time for rookies to develop and contribute, but the Hawks are too good for that? Not buying it. 

[Sothron]

3 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Rookie minutes for East Top 10:

Miami - 922
Milwaukee - 502
Philly - 249
Boston - 76
Chicago - 1,992
Cleveland - 2,394
Toronto - 3,204
Brooklyn - 2,619
Charlotte - 609
Atlanta - 200

7 of the top 9 teams in the East can find time for rookies to develop and contribute, but the Hawks are too good for that? Not buying it. 

And for those wondering go back and look at historic NBA teams. The 80's Celtics and Lakers found ways to play young guys. They developed their players. Not every player panned out but you at least gave them a real chance. Nate is the only coach I can ever remember that has literally shut the door on playing rookies.

Remember, this was last season as well. The front office had to ORDER HIM to play OO at least five minutes a game. Now OO is a stud...who can't even get 20 minutes a game. It is like Nate went to the Atlanta Falcons front office school of how to run a team.