Build Proposals Around Trae = Exercise in Futility

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 3/23/2022 at 8:50 AM, Wretch said:

45 points last night smh...and the 4th time he's hit that mark (40) this month if you count the 39 he put up a few weeks ago.

On +50% from the field, 47% on 3's.  SEVEN of 15 like...damn.

85% from the FT line on 14 trips - which is more than HALF of our whole damn team and DOUBLE all other Knicks ~COMBINED~ excluding RJ.

Oh and by the way, just so happened to be running the offense and dishing out 8 assists.

WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS RIDICULOUS CONVERSATION!?!?!?

Do you know how many players are out there watching Trae drooling at the idea of playing next to him?  Do ya'll not hear the conversation about him by the fans OUTSIDE of Atlanta?  Are you not watching the media response to him?

Are you people really not understanding what's happening in Atlanta? This man can go anywhere and elevate a team.  I don't want to even imagine him teaming up with another elite scorer (or two!) on another team.  TO-DAY...GM's are budgeting for it.  RIGHT NOW.  We don't need no narratives gaining traction in the fanbase and helping them out.  Especially not this obvious reactionary hate.  We have to embrace this man and build a team suited to *HIS* game NOW.  That's the conversation.

 

 

What gets me is that people KNOW what is needed to win a championship, or even have your team playing at a higher level.

If you don't have that 2nd star that consistently plays at a high level, as well as a team around you that does the intangibles, you're not going to win.  This is why team construction and health is so vital in this league.

What the Hawks cannot do, is fall so in love with their home grown talent, that they feel that waiting on them to develop and get to the next level is the correct move.  We've gone through this with Joe Johnson and the Highlight Factory group.  And that group had 4 shots to get to the EC Finals, before a decision was made to break them up .  . . after 7 years together ( 4 with Al + JJ/Smoove/Marvin )

If you have to flip Hunter or Bogi or Collins or Capela to bring in a more established player on offense, that's what you do.  Because you have to sell on your talent when others think that they still have value.

 

Schlenk has to address the softness of this team.  We're soft on the inside.  We're soft on the outside.   Even when this team gets stops, we don't get key rebounds to end the possession.  There are intangible things that this team doesn't do, that keeps us from being a team above .500.

The fact that De'Andre Hunter is only averaging 3.2 rebs is one of the most depressing stats on the team.  He plays more like a 2-guard than a guy who is a 3/4 hybrid.   If he wants to be bootleg Joe Johnson, we may as well play him at the 2, and bring in someone tough at the 3 who can knock down timely shots, play defense, and hit the glass.

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

What gets me is that people KNOW what is needed to win a championship, or even have your team playing at a higher level.

If you don't have that 2nd star that consistently plays at a high level, as well as a team around you that does the intangibles, you're not going to win.  This is why team construction and health is so vital in this league.

What the Hawks cannot do, is fall so in love with their home grown talent, that they feel that waiting on them to develop and get to the next level is the correct move.  We've gone through this with Joe Johnson and the Highlight Factory group.  And that group had 4 shots to get to the EC Finals, before a decision was made to break them up .  . . after 7 years together ( 4 with Al + JJ/Smoove/Marvin )

If you have to flip Hunter or Bogi or Collins or Capela to bring in a more established player on offense, that's what you do.  Because you have to sell on your talent when others think that they still have value.

 

Schlenk has to address the softness of this team.  We're soft on the inside.  We're soft on the outside.   Even when this team gets stops, we don't get key rebounds to end the possession.  There are intangible things that this team doesn't do, that keeps us from being a team above .500.

The fact that De'Andre Hunter is only averaging 3.2 rebs is one of the most depressing stats on the team.  He plays more like a 2-guard than a guy who is a 3/4 hybrid.   If he wants to be bootleg Joe Johnson, we may as well play him at the 2, and bring in someone tough at the 3 who can knock down timely shots, play defense, and hit the glass.

[Wretch]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:27 AM, Sothron said:

My source said to expect to hear about Trae going to ownership if need be in the offseason to get him a second star. Trae is going to use his franchise face clout to try and pressure them into getting someone in here that can actually score.

To me, this is the most telling part in all of the conversation.  Trae did this...what...in his 2nd season too?  One way or another he's going to get the team that he needs to compete at a high level and it won't be in ATL if we can't get it together.  In light of that, I have to wonder if there's another player in the NBA being monitored as closely as Trae Young.

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

 

45 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

What gets me is that people KNOW what is needed to win a championship, or even have your team playing at a higher level.

If you don't have that 2nd star that consistently plays at a high level, as well as a team around you that does the intangibles, you're not going to win.  This is why team construction and health is so vital in this league.

What the Hawks cannot do, is fall so in love with their home grown talent, that they feel that waiting on them to develop and get to the next level is the correct move.  We've gone through this with Joe Johnson and the Highlight Factory group.  And that group had 4 shots to get to the EC Finals, before a decision was made to break them up .  . . after 7 years together ( 4 with Al + JJ/Smoove/Marvin )

If you have to flip Hunter or Bogi or Collins or Capela to bring in a more established player on offense, that's what you do.  Because you have to sell on your talent when others think that they still have value.

 

Schlenk has to address the softness of this team.  We're soft on the inside.  We're soft on the outside.   Even when this team gets stops, we don't get key rebounds to end the possession.  There are intangible things that this team doesn't do, that keeps us from being a team above .500.

The fact that De'Andre Hunter is only averaging 3.2 rebs is one of the most depressing stats on the team.  He plays more like a 2-guard than a guy who is a 3/4 hybrid.   If he wants to be bootleg Joe Johnson, we may as well play him at the 2, and bring in someone tough at the 3 who can knock down timely shots, play defense, and hit the glass.

Especially the part in bold.  Especially that...  We shouldn't have done it back then and we DAMN sure can't do it now.  I've been saying it since year two.  People are gonna need to get out of their feelings about everybody on this team not named Trae.  It kinda sucks that his skills have accelerated our timeline, but it is what it is.

[Final_quest]

4 hours ago, Wretch said:Especially the part in bold.  Especially that...  We shouldn't have done it back then and we DAMN sure can't do it now.  I've been saying it since year two.  People are gonna need to get out of their feelings about everybody on this team not named Trae.  It kinda sucks that his skills have accelerated our timeline, but it is what it is.

This turned me completely cranky last summer. As Northcyde said, we KNOW we need another star.  Everyone was pissed if you suggested trading Cam, Hunter, or Huerter.  People were drunk with love for our core.  I think reality hit us hard this year.  

[Diesel]

Just because we draft a player doesn't mean that they are a star.   After we realize that, we can then come to the table and think about what we need. 

[Gray Mule]

Posters know what the Hawks need.  They tell us, over and over.  Strange thing is, they already have a player that fits the example that we all agree that we need.  He plays in the G League with the Skyhawks and sometimes shows up on the bench with the Hawks.

This fruit isn't ripe yet.  He's got so much talent and he does so many things that we want this special player to be able to do.  He's not likely to play much, if any minutes this season. Right now he's growing into this special player.  

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Posters know what the Hawks need.  They tell us, over and over.  Strange thing is, they already have a player that fits the example that we all agree that we need.  He plays in the G League with the Skyhawks and sometimes shows up on the bench with the Hawks.

This fruit isn't ripe yet.  He's got so much talent and he does so many things that we want this special player to be able to do.  He's not likely to play much, if any minutes this season. Right now he's growing into this special player.  

I think last year it was Cam and Hunter that were in the place that you are putting Jalen.  We didn't need to trade for a top tier NBA player to pair with Trae because Cam Reddish looked like he was a can't miss rising star.  

The reality is Jalen is a potential rotation player and long shot at becoming an All NBA player that we need.  He is not going to step into the role we need next year, a second all star. 

Jalen is a developing talent.  We need a proven talent.  If we refrain from adding a top tier talent because of Jalen, we are repeating the cycle of overvaluing a player on a rookie contract.  

[Gray Mule]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I think last year it was Cam and Hunter that were in the place that you are putting Jalen.  We didn't need to trade for a top tier NBA player to pair with Trae because Cam Reddish looked like he was a can't miss rising star.  

The reality is Jalen is a potential rotation player and long shot at becoming an All NBA player that we need.  He is not going to step into the role we need next year, a second all star. 

Jalen is a developing talent.  We need a proven talent.  If we refrain from adding a top tier talent because of Jalen, we are repeating the cycle of overvaluing a player on a rookie contract.  

Nope.  We saw Cam and Hunter play last season.  I'm not trying to say that JJ is the answer to our problems.  I'm just saying that he has shown most of the things that we want in a player.  Just another cog in the wheel.  If anyone expects him to come in and be an instant all star, he's not that player.

True, we really need another great player and we may trade two or three players and/or draft picks for him.  If we do this there is still the necessity of filling out the other slots on the roster.  JJ has the talent, the God given ability, to be one of these "others."  You can't coach size and you can't measure heart.  Maybe, just maybe, he has what it takes to be a good NBA player.  

I may be all wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time.  That being said, I like the kid.

[Final_quest]

55 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Nope.  We saw Cam and Hunter play last season.  I'm not trying to say that JJ is the answer to our problems.  I'm just saying that he has shown most of the things that we want in a player.  Just another cog in the wheel.  If anyone expects him to come in and be an instant all star, he's not that player.

True, we really need another great player and we may trade two or three players and/or draft picks for him.  If we do this there is still the necessity of filling out the other slots on the roster.  JJ has the talent, the God given ability, to be one of these "others."  You can't coach size and you can't measure heart.  Maybe, just maybe, he has what it takes to be a good NBA player.  

I may be all wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time.  That being said, I like the kid.

I love Jalen as a prospect.  Got a lot of heck for saying I think he's better than Cam or Hunter last year. 

Should we play him more?  For sure.  That's a totally different question/need, though.  If we are talking about a 2nd star to pair with Trae, Jalen isn't part of that conversation yet.

[gurpilo]

I would not count on JJ to become a regular contributor but for sure I would give him the minutes of Luwawu. He can be the 5th forward easily on the team. Is important to have a balance of proven players and developing talent.

I can definately see a rotation like this

Trae/Delon/ Cooper

Bogi/Huerter

Hunter/FA?/JJ

Colllins/Gallo/JJ

Capela/Okongwu

For next year change Huerter for a 3&D player at SG with size, as Garay Harris, find a starter at SF that can chalenge Hunter, needs to be a defensive big SF as Otto Porter, upgrade center position, frontis Capela to someone like Ayton, draft a C with size as Jalen Duren.

[gurpilo]

I will make a trial

Young/Delon/Cooper

Bogi/Bruce Brown/draft pick

Hunter/Otro Porter/JJ

Collins/Jalen Smith/JJ

Ayton/Okongwu/draft pick ir FA as Whiteside

You can even add someone like Kyle Anderson or Covington if you think Jalen Smith is too young to be a reliable backup. I don't, I think he is legit. Boucher is also a good option.

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by gurpilo

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, gurpilo said:

I would not count on JJ to become a regular contributor but for sure I would give him the minutes of Luwawu. He can be the 5th forward easily on the team. Is important to have a balance of proven players and developing talent.

I can definately see a rotation like this

Trae/Delon/ Cooper

Bogi/Huerter

Hunter/FA?/JJ

Colllins/Gallo/JJ

Capela/Okongwu

For next year change Huerter for a 3&D player at SG with size, as Garay Harris, find a starter at SF that can chalenge Hunter, needs to be a defensive big SF as Otto Porter, upgrade center position, frontis Capela to someone like Ayton, draft a C with size as Jalen Duren.

To me.. .JJ is just a PF. 

I don't think he has the speed to be a 3.  Nor have I seen him hit a three pointer yet.   My school of thought is old school (You are what you defend).  I don't really care to see little guys (skilled guys) running past him for the score. 

[Final_quest]

12 hours ago, Diesel said:

To me.. .JJ is just a PF. 

I don't think he has the speed to be a 3.  Nor have I seen him hit a three pointer yet.   My school of thought is old school (You are what you defend).  I don't really care to see little guys (skilled guys) running past him for the score. 

Not sure if he's a fit at SF, but literally his first shot he took and made in the NBA was a 3 pointer.  He went 2 for 3 from deep in the opener vs Dallas.  He has had so few minutes, we don't know what's in his bag. 

He definitely can shoot.  His last few games at College Park he took more than 6 threes per game and made 35%.  

What I really like about Jalen is the authority he plays with.  We don't have a guy who drives and finishes with the strength of Jalen.  He's either already been on performance enhancing drugs, or doesn't need them.  He's a man child.  

[kg01]

On 3/25/2022 at 1:15 PM, kg01 said:

Another question. Which disqualifies you more from being an mvp?

a. Missing 18 games or 

b. You team being 16-2 in those games you missed.

It's now 18-2, kg.

"Oh and he's just missin' games for load maintenance, kg."

Ok that's fine.  I just better not see him on mvp or all-nba lists then.

[h4wkfan]

42 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's now 18-2, kg.

"Oh and he's just missin' games for load maintenance, kg."

Ok that's fine.  I just better not see him on mvp or all-nba lists then.

But but but look at the teams they played without him. They were all bad!!!! Except the 2 losses. Those were probably both to the suns, on the roads.