The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[sturt]

31 minutes ago, shakes said:

you are without a doubt the classiest person who posts here

Nah. I'm really not. You must be new here. The stories others could tell you about me. (hehe)

[GThawks3]

20 minutes ago, sturt said:

Want? No.

But.

I do want a starter-quality player as that asset on my second unit that can conceivably come off the bench and be the asset that leads the team to a win on occasion. It's not normal you can get bargains filling that function. It happens... maybe a rookie who proves to be an over-performer... but it's rare.

And.

I'm more content with that price knowing what we're being told to expect with the next TV contract, which inherently is going to have the effect of enlarging the cap--which in turn, shrinks the impact of his contract if/when/as that happens.

And.

We've now entered a new phase of the evolution of this team... both your #1 (Trae) and your #2 (JC) are now getting paid on their second contracts. So, where you could afford to have a $38m coming off your bench last season, you have to reduce that or pay progressive tax. Better to have one player who has been an All-Star and is entering his prime professional years at ~$26m, or better to have two players who are good but aren't at all likely to raise to that level @ ~$13m? I might opt for the latter, except in my own calculation, I have us adding a $2m Lu Dort for 2022-23, and I feel good about that.

Someone's going to get those minutes, of course. And I'm less concerned with the optics of JC making slightly less. It's only a big deal to the degree that JC would be the kind of person to make it a big deal. I'm persuaded JC wants to win.

Having said that, it can't be said enough, as long as JR has clarity that JC is going to be the #1 PF and him the #2... then when JR signs off on waiving his trade kicker (a necessity for a 1 for 1 Gallo trade), that's all you/I/we need to know about JR's want to win.

Yeah I just don’t see it as a winning move. JC is the 2nd best player when healthy so Im not a fan of limiting his minutes which limits his overall impact especially for someone a lot of ppl doesn’t think is a winning player. Tying up for 50m at one position for the next 4 years is not a good use or money either. Randle off the bench won’t help this team win games.

If hawks had someone like O’Neale on the Jazz who’s starts bc he’s good defensively but not much of a scorer then maybe you try Randle behind him when you need scoring but not a great fit here when we have JC. I still hope Jalen Johnson can be the backup 4 as well. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by GThawks3

[sturt]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

they're willing to take back a guy (Gallo) they probably plan on waiving before the season.

Hmmmm... nah, I don't think that part's accurate at all. There's no real reason to waive $20.45m. There would be if they traded for the $5m non-guaranteed contract, but then they can't send out Randle for that. It has to be guaranteed already.

The magic of getting Gallo is he's one and done.

And/but as @nathan2331 and I discussed (iirc)... it makes even more sense if NYK does a mini-tank, intent on being big players in 2023 free agency while also acquiescing to a bad 2022-23 in order to get an optimal draft slot in a perceived-primo draft year.

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, GThawks3 said:

I still hope Jalen Johnson can be the backup 4 as well. 

To the rest of what you said, okay. I'd only offer again that someone is going to get the 18-22 minutes that typically your starter isn't getting.

But to this, I think the takeaway would be that TS/McM have agreed that JJ is ticketed to be Dre's back-up. And if you watch very much of his G-league clips, it does seem JJ was touching the ball out on the wing at least as much (I'm pretty sure more tho) as on the block.

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, Dean Walker said:

The Knicks are in a different place rn.

They want to build around Rj Barrett.

They realize Randle can’t be the #1 guy and they don’t have the assets rn to acquire anyone better than him.

If we acquired Julius he’d be the 2nd option and depending on whatever other moves we do(Lavine,Ayton etc)he’d possibly be the 3rd option.

Julius would Thrive here being the 2nd or 3rd option.

I just don’t understand how you guys don’t/can’t see this!

You aren't answering my question.  Teams that have decided to build around a different player don't take an obvious asset and just give him away.  They use that asset to build around the other player (RJ in this case).  

I haven't once argued that Randle wouldn't be a 2nd or 3rd option so don't put words in my mouth.  I'm simply asking why, if he's so valuable, the Knicks would give him away.  That doesn't make sense to me.  Nothing of immense value is ever given away for free in the NBA.  

[sturt]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

I'm simply asking why, if he's so valuable, the Knicks would give him away. 

One working theory...

11 minutes ago, sturt said:

The magic of getting Gallo is he's one and done.

And/but as @nathan2331 and I discussed (iirc)... it makes even more sense if NYK does a mini-tank, intent on being big players in 2023 free agency while also acquiescing to a bad 2022-23 in order to get an optimal draft slot in a perceived-primo draft year.

 

[GThawks3]

16 minutes ago, sturt said:

To the rest of what you said, okay. I'd only offer again that someone is going to get the 18-22 minutes that typically your starter isn't getting.

But to this, I think the takeaway would be that TS/McM have agreed that JJ is ticketed to be Dre's back-up. And if you watch very much of his G-league clips, it does seem JJ was touching the ball out on the wing at least as much (I'm pretty sure more tho) as on the block.

I think he is pretty different than Dre. Dre is a better shooter and more perimeter based with his scoring while JJ is a lot better near the rim. I’m not sure if JJ will be able to shoot well enough from the perimeter to play the 3 full time. If teams don’t respect his 3 ball he won’t be able to but it’s ok to me bc his handle/passing/finishing stand out at the 4 and hitting open 3’s at decent clip would be a bonus. Nate has said multiple time he see his as a 4 too I believe and that’s the only position he played when was in the rotation for that short time.

Edited May 28, 2022 by GThawks3

[REHawksFan]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

You aren't answering my question.  Teams that have decided to build around a different player don't take an obvious asset and just give him away.  They use that asset to build around the other player (RJ in this case).  

I haven't once argued that Randle wouldn't be a 2nd or 3rd option so don't put words in my mouth.  I'm simply asking why, if he's so valuable, the Knicks would give him away.  That doesn't make sense to me.  Nothing of immense value is ever given away for free in the NBA.  

This is probably the most plausible answer that doesn't involve a negative attached to Randle (ie bad contract, bad value, declining player)

I can see that being a reasonable position to take.  But I can also see the concern over low efficiency being a reasonable position to take. 

 

[Dean Walker]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

 

 

THEN.  WHY.  ARE.  THEY.  WILLING.  TRADE.  HIM.  FOR.  GALLO?

 

 

That’s the part of the equation you keep failing to address.

Maybe that’s their fall back option.

The suns deal that supes mentioned is significantly better for them!

And I can guarantee they have other Better deals also.

The league better hope the suns don’t get Julius for that package.

Nobody’s beating a suns team with cp3, booker, bridges and Julius core.

Nobody!

[terrell]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Then why is he available for free? 

I'm not arguing against anything you said, I'm simply asking why, if all that is true, are the NYK just giving him to the Hawks for a guy on a partially guaranteed contract???

Why are we acting like the Knicks know what their doing.. Ever.. lol..

Not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you.. Just sayin.. The Knicks havent made great decisions lately..

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, terrell said:

The Knicks havent made great decisions lately..

Neither have you.

[kg01]

There's some serious overrating of this Randle guy.

Poll some Knicks fans or, better yet, query some basketball guys you trust. 

See what they think of the guy since, apparently, all the rest of us are missing out on this walking/talking hall of famer ya'll seem to see.

[yungsta]

The Julius Randle obsession is strange to me.

Fans overate high volume low value-added shot creation waaaaayyy to much. Just because a player has high ppg doesn't mean he is a good player.

I put Julius Randle value add in the same tier as hawksquawk's favorites Rudy Gay, Monta Ellis and Al Jefferson.

John Collins > Julius Randle

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, GThawks3 said:

I think he is pretty different than Dre. Dre is a better shooter and more perimeter based with his scoring while JJ is a lot better near the rim. I’m not sure if JJ will be able to shoot well enough from the perimeter to play the 3 full time. If teams don’t respect his 3 ball he won’t be able to but it’s ok to me bc his handle/passing/finishing stand out at the 4 and hitting open 3’s at decent clip would be a bonus. Nate has said multiple time he see his as a 4 too I believe and that’s the only position he played when was in the rotation for that short time.

JJ showed in the G-League that his best position is small ball 5 at this stage. If you think he's a big wing, he's really far from showcasing it at this stage 

[RandomFan]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

hehe

And I would remind our friend @RandomFan that it turns out... if one ignores the critics... ol' stu wasn't wrong on Pankos. To hear some reminisce, you'd think stu made it out that Pankos would be a starter in the league once given a chance. Truth is, stu only made it out that some team would sign him. That's it. And yep. It happened. I'd penciled him into the 3rd PG slot for us this time last off-season.

But I thank you for acting as public defense attorney representing my best interests, kg.

No, no, no. I just meant the part about penciling a guy into the Hawks lineup about 8,000 times that has little chance of ending up in our lineup and wouldn't be a good addition if he did. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by RandomFan

[Peoriabird]

38 minutes ago, yungsta said:

The Julius Randle obsession is strange to me.

Fans overate high volume low value-added shot creation waaaaayyy to much. Just because a player has high ppg doesn't mean he is a good player.

I put Julius Randle value add in the same tier as hawksquawk's favorites Rudy Gay, Monta Ellis and Al Jefferson.

John Collins > Julius Randle

 

Who is overvaluing Julius Randle besides 1 person on this message board. I just mearly stated that he is probably more useful than Gallo because he rebounds and passes. I think @sturt sees him very similar to me. So who are these so called fan(s)?

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

You lose the game when you start talking about Irving.   He's a headcase who doesn't put Basketball first and he wants a 250 Million dollar deal.   That's a no.

So here's a deal to consider because I dont think we need that much...

Bogi, Gallo, Hunter for Simmon/Harris.  

No Picks. No nothing.   Everybody leaves happier. 

What we would have:

• Young/Delon/Shariff
• Heurter/Harris
• Simmons/FA
• JC/JJ
• Clint/OO/Mark Williams. 

First let's talk about Why Brooklyn does it.

They actually get good bonafide players.  Hunter brings defense.   Bogi is a starting quality SG.  Gallo and Seth come off the bench.   There are enough bigs to go shopping.  There are bigs in FAcy that they can get for MLE.   Bruce Brown returns to either start over Bogi or they can SNT him somewhere else. 

 

Let's talk about us...

Simmons provides the defense that we needed.   Simmons provides a playmaker that we have needed.   We're potent.

 

 

There yall go with that Trae/Huerter starting backcourt again.. smh

 

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Neither have you.

[Diesel]

26 minutes ago, terrell said:

There yall go with that Trae/Huerter starting backcourt again.. smh

 

With a Simmons, JC, Capela frontcourt.. I think it's alright. 

 

[Diesel]

Trae is funny!!