Official Game Thread: Rockets at Hawks -- The Season Opener!

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Have some intellectual humility/honesty please.

 

You are asking for intellectual humility when I don't see a single other person sharing YOUR opinion.  So, as far as I can see our coaches, GM, fellow posters have a different take than you.  How is it that all of these people who disagree with the perspective of one person need humility? Shouldn't it be the other way around? 

The person pointing fingers at the GM for allowing him on the roster, the coach for playing him, and posters for supporting his place in the rotation is saying they all need humility and to look at their chart on defensive rating.  You don't see how ridiculous that sounds?  

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

I don't see a single other person sharing YOUR opinion.

So we vote on what conclusions are accurate and correct to hold?

That's a new one on me. Didn't know that. I apologize for getting out of line. I'll stand down.

 

Mind you, it's been my observation and maybe yours too that people come to someone's aid on social media when they themselves hold Position X on Topic Y, and they perceive someone else who also holds that position isn't doing especially well in bringing substance to the floor to be considered, and so they rush in to help refortify Position X since the opposing position(s) appear to be getting traction.

They do not tend to rush in to come to someone's aid, on the other hand, when they themselves hold Position X on Topic Y, and they perceive someone else who also holds that position is doing just fine in bringing substance to the floor to be considered... believing that to do so would just amount to piling on, since the other position(s) are not gaining traction.

In other words, perhaps it might be the case that... even if we decide logic isn't the defining standard for whether a position is valid... others who recognize that Justin's regressed significantly don't really see the need to jump in.

(Many if not most, though, probably just don't care enough to wade into the topic at all.)

 

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

So, as far as I can see our coaches, GM, fellow posters have a different take than you.  How is it that all of these people who disagree

 

 

You made that up.

(Okay, technically, you left yourself an out by saying "as far as I can see"... and/but we are left to assume you have no better "sight" than any of the rest of us.)

Nate's not even addressed the topic of Justin's regression. He's not likely to, either. Let's not play naive to the fact that head coaches almost never publicly call out their players' regression in any part of their games. In fact, in Nate's case, you have the example of him season-before-last actually claiming that Tony Snell's defense was good, when it was not... and eventually, Tony's shooting mastery wasn't even enough to overcome his defensive deficit... began doing a lot more sitting as the season progressed, and I don't think he even got off the bench in post season.

Same, front office. They're not going to talk down about a player publicly, and have not. If anything, like the head coach, they're going to deflect to something positive if they ever comment at all.

They do not disagree with the conclusion that JDay's regressed defensively insofar as we can possibly know... but to be intellectually honest, I also cannot assert that they agree with the conclusion... though... I would be very surprised if they're all unaware of the numbers.

(Wouldn't you?)

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

The person pointing fingers at the GM for allowing him on the roster... yada yada yada

A key indicator of intellectual humility is whether a person can recite accurately/authentically another person's actual assertions/beliefs.

You've failed here, and it wouldn't be so bad, but you've had to have ignored about 80% of all I've written on this topic to have said what you said here.

That's bad. C'mon man.

I'm not mad at the GM for allowing him on the roster.

I'm not mad at the coach for playing him.

I'm not taking issue with other posters who support playing him.

None of those are accurate.

To the contrary, I've said over and over again... and over again... and over again... JDay is the best option right now.

And further, I've said over and over again... and over again... and over again... JDay would be just fine to occupy a place on the roster like Solo did, on the 3rd unit, there to get minutes when the two rotations guys in front of him aren't available or need rest.

Neither of those two statements are consistent with your statements.

Get it in your head pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

And, I've said over and over again... and over again... and over again... my comments are limited to likelihood, not what will be, as if I'm omniscient... a bounce back year is rare at 33 yrs old, but not completely out of the question, and until a BETTER OPTION would emerge, then all of us Hawks fans need to hope for the best, though preparing for the worst.

And finally. To the primary, cornerstone point...

No one is wrong to want a better option... ie, a higher likelihood of success option. Not me, not anyone. Optimally, that's AJ Griffin.

*crosses fingers*

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

So we vote on what conclusions are accurate and correct to hold?

That's a new one on me. Didn't know that. I apologize for getting out of line. I'll stand down.

 

Mind you, it's been my observation and maybe yours too that people come to someone's aid on social media when they themselves hold Position X on Topic Y, and they perceive someone else who also holds that position isn't doing especially well in bringing substance to the floor to be considered, and so they rush in to help refortify Position X since the opposing position(s) appear to be getting traction.

They do not tend to rush in to come to someone's aid, on the other hand, when they themselves hold Position X on Topic Y, and they perceive someone else who also holds that position is doing just fine in bringing substance to the floor to be considered... believing that to do so would just amount to piling on, since the other position(s) are not gaining traction.

In other words, perhaps it might be the case that... even if we decide logic isn't the defining standard for whether a position is valid... others who recognize that Justin's regressed significantly don't really see the need to jump in.

(Many if not most, though, probably just don't care enough to wade into the topic at all.)

 

 

 

You made that up.

(Okay, technically, you left yourself an out by saying "as far as I can see"... and/but we are left to assume you have no better "sight" than any of the rest of us.)

Nate's not even addressed the topic of Justin's regression. He's not likely to, either. Let's not play naive to the fact that head coaches almost never publicly call out their players' regression in any part of their games. In fact, in Nate's case, you have the example of him season-before-last actually claiming that Tony Snell's defense was good, when it was not... and eventually, Tony's shooting mastery wasn't even enough to overcome his defensive deficit... began doing a lot more sitting as the season progressed, and I don't think he even got off the bench in post season.

Same, front office. They're not going to talk down about a player publicly, and have not. If anything, like the head coach, they're going to deflect to something positive if they ever comment at all.

They do not disagree with the conclusion that JDay's regressed defensively insofar as we can possibly know... but to be intellectually honest, I also cannot assert that they agree with the conclusion... though... I would be very surprised if they're all unaware of the numbers.

(Wouldn't you?)

A key indicator of intellectual humility is whether a person can recite accurately/authentically another person's actual assertions/beliefs.

You've failed here, and it wouldn't be so bad, but you've had to have ignored about 80% of all I've written on this topic to have said what you said here.

That's bad. C'mon man.

I'm not mad at the GM for allowing him on the roster.

I'm not mad at the coach for playing him.

I'm not taking issue with other posters who support playing him.

None of those are accurate.

To the contrary, I've said over and over again... and over again... and over again... JDay is the best option right now.

And further, I've said over and over again... and over again... and over again... JDay would be just fine to occupy a place on the roster like Solo did, on the 3rd unit, there to get minutes when the two rotations guys in front of him aren't available or need rest.

Neither of those two statements are consistent with your statements.

Get it in your head pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

And, I've said over and over again... and over again... and over again... my comments are limited to likelihood, not what will be, as if I'm omniscient... a bounce back year is rare at 33 yrs old, but not completely out of the question, and until a BETTER OPTION would emerge, then all of us Hawks fans need to hope for the best, though preparing for the worst.

And finally. To the primary, cornerstone point...

No one is wrong to want a better option... ie, a higher likelihood of success option. Not me, not anyone. Optimally, that's AJ Griffin.

*crosses fingers*

For someone who has written thousands of words on Justin Holiday, I did not get the impression that this is how you felt:

I'm not mad at the GM for allowing him on the roster.

I'm not mad at the coach for playing him.

I'm not taking issue with other posters who support playing him.

************************************************************************************
No one is saying he hasn't regressed over the past 3 years.  He seems like he'll be completely adequate as a backup 3, as he demonstrated last night.  He doesn't need to have upside to be part of our rotation for a year.  

[sturt]

1. It's my fault, Quest.

Apparently, I should have written tens of thousands in order to make it clear. I apologize.

 

2. No one is saying he hasn't regressed?

Am I getting you confused with someone else?

Sorry about that, too, then.

Someone else, then, as recently as this morning attempted to argue that it's not that JDay regressed, it's that the data is skewed by his starting games these last two seasons... it will be different with him coming off the bench.

I need to pay closer attention. I'll try to do that.

 

3. This says it all... "He doesn't need to have upside to be part of our rotation."

This is the tipping point.

See, to me, every player needs to have upside to be part of our rotation. If it can't happen, it can't happen, but it needs to happen if it possibly can. So, I'm concerned to eliminate players who don't have upside from our rotation in favor of players who do have upside.

But let's take a vote. Maybe the logic there should give way to democratic popularity.

 

(You're being ridiculous now. I don't recall seeing this from you previously. Pardon the observation, but it's as if using the term "intellectual humility" lit a fuse with you, and you're damned determined to go the complete other way.)

 

(Tapping out... no purpose served by continuing here... have a last word, if you like, but I've got a yard to mow... )

[Final_quest]

I said it's fine for someone who is an aging veteran to play an end of the rotation role with our team, or any team.  That is true for all professional sports.  The stop gap veteran who plugs a hole while you wait for others to develop.  Do they have upside?  Not usually.  I would guess every team in the league plays someone on the downside of their career.