Official Game Thread: Celtics at Hawks

[StonedDogs]

33 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Amazing how Okonguw is not a stud off the bench. Another wasted top 6 pick it seems. 

Maybe its this team. Perhaps he's a stud with a Lamelo Ball in that system. Maybe he's a stud on the Spurs or Jazz. You have to look at how this team is run offensively. Not much to work with from a creative standpoint 

[JTB]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He is still efficient from 2, playing great defense, struggling from 3 just like the ENTIRE team. The rest is just noise. 15 games.

Ok we shall see. I think it’s a toss up with shooting on if it’s truly a problem or not….but we shall see.

[JTB]

2 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

Maybe its this team. Perhaps he's a stud with a Lamelo Ball in that system. Maybe he's a stud on the Spurs or Jazz. You have to look at how this team is run offensively. Not much to work with from a creative standpoint 

If OO could start in place of Collins and had the opportunity to share the floor with Murray and Capela at the same time you all would be so amazed.

Collins is only starting over OO cause of shooting ability but in my opinion  OO has way more defensive impact! Its too bad we can’t see him on the floor with Capela but that’s a conversation for a different day.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, JTB said:

Ok we shall see. I think it’s a toss up with shooting on if it’s truly a problem or not….but we shall see.

SSS....In 14 games he's averaging 1 more minute per game, 2 less shot attempts per game.  2.9 3s per game.

I guess we shall see. Same with Trae's struggles shooting.

[StonedDogs]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

If OO could start in place of Collins and had the opportunity to share the floor with Murray and Capela at the same time you all would be so amazed.

Collins is only starting over OO cause of shooting ability but in my opinion  OO has way more defensive impact! Its too bad we can’t see him on the floor with Capela but that’s a conversation for a different day.

I definitely agree. Ive always liked his game from high school through college. This Hawks system doesn’t utilize his skillset. He is so talented

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, JTB said:

Love JC he’s a good player but he has flaws that blinds best hawks fans from seeing that’s all I’m saying.

I don't think you'll find ANY Squawker that doesn't think JC has flaws to his game.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

He still can’t dribble or put the ball on the floor to beat his defender ever…

 Can't???? Ever???  And I'm not say he's a masterclass at it but can't and never 

 

 

 

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, JTB said:

Love JC he’s a good player but he has flaws that blinds best hawks fans from seeing that’s all I’m saying.

 

Don’t worry it’s coming.

At some point Nate will stop all this share the ball BS if the team doesn’t produce. Trae should have had 14 or 15 assist tonight but his teammates really have to knockdown shots. Trae isn’t being aggressive with looking for his shot. Right now he’s going playing the traditional point guard role and looking to pass about 70% of the time down the court. He’s being told that he has to trust his team and move the ball around and Murray is getting the same message.

im not making excuses for Trae cause he’s definitely had some bad shooting outings way more than normal but best believe he’s still elite offensively. 15 games cannot be put up against the elite offensive body of work Trae has had in his career so far. Also he lead us all last season offensively. In the playoffs the heat showed him his respect and trapped him every chance they could in bold fashion. They were so extreme with it that they even left players wide open or gapped so far away cause they knew no other player on the roster could beat them off the dribble consistently.

Yeah Trae has shown up until the playoffs last year that he is elite on offense, except for when he plays teams that switch 1 through 5. The Teams that switch 1-5 gives him problems. Trae stinks on defense so he has to pick it up on offense. Thats all Im sayin

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't think you'll find ANY Squawker that doesn't think JC has flaws to his game.

Depends on who we are talking to. I recall a thread about Collins being a top 10 PF. It may have looked that way 2 years ago but he’s definitely not a top 10 PF today but I bet we have many squawkers who will defend him.

I’m not looking or hoping to trade Collins or anything but offensively we haven’t seen any improvements since he added the 3 ball 3 seasons ago. I’m glad the defense improved but he was going to improve so much before he tops out due to physicality and length. Offensively we should all be seeing more from him in year 5 or 6…it has nothing to do with new personnel. Collins is just the same offensively no improvements…just the same.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, JTB said:

top 10 PF today

15 games, but OK. 

[JTB]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 Can't???? Ever???  And I'm not say he's a masterclass at it but can't and never 

 

 

 

First one is a straight line drive. We can put our good friend @Gray Mule out there to do a straight line drive. Collins better be able to do that .

That second one is nice but it’s not a consistent move.

[JTB]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

15 games, but OK. 

LOL he’s not top 10…he’s solid but he’s not top 10.

I remember that we argued about Jermi Grant last season and you were so sure grant was done but look at him now in Portland..ballin! He looks way better than Collins because he is better than Collins.

 

 

[JTB]

9 minutes ago, terrell said:

Yeah Trae has shown up until the playoffs last year that he is elite on offense, except for when he plays teams that switch 1 through 5. The Teams that switch 1-5 gives him problems. Trae stinks on defense so he has to pick it up on offense. Thats all Im sayin

Facts no arguments there and is not the switching it’s the trapping. When Trae is his normal offensive self teams would be crazy to put a 4 or 5 on him. I believe Trae will start to be himself offensively soon enough hard to say about the rest of the team outside of Murray.

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, JTB said:

That second one is nice but it’s not a consistent move.

How many consistent play calls does he get?

Let's just agree to disagree. 

15 games.

[Diesel]

38 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't think you'll find ANY Squawker that doesn't think JC has flaws to his game.

Matter of fact, I haven't seen 1 player ever that didn't have flaws in their game.  Jeez...  for your next statement of obvious, Tell me that the sun is hot.

However, you have to do something if you would like to see OO replace JC in the starting lineup.  

[JayBirdHawk]

I need a reporter to ask Trae about that taped wrist he's had the last 2 games. He started training camp with it.

This is from Day 3 (I think) of training camp.

 

Could this be affecting his shooting? Now that would be concerning.

[FL_BRYANT]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

If Collins can’t be effective offensively shooting it then it’s not going to go well this season. He’s improved big time defensively but he can’t do what Capela and OO can defensively and his offense is suppose to even him out as an all around big man for us.

I don’t know what to say ….there’s no excuses in my opinion for Collins. He’s not taking difficult 3s and I don’t believe asking him to hit open 3s is asking a lot from someone who is widely considered the 3rd best player on the team.

 

it’s not like he’s been shooting off the dribble 3s…he’s always been a spot up 3pt shooter since he started taking them in the nba under bud and in most seasons he’s been efficient at knocking them down.

 

STOP making excuses for Collins offensively. Sharing the ball with Collins is wasted possessions a lot of the times.  He still can’t dribble or put the ball on the floor to beat his defender ever….he’s not good at posting up and scoring with his back to the basket or over smaller defenders ….he gets moved off his spot in the post easily even by smaller defenders.

I mean he’s a good solid player but that’s really it. If this bad 3pt shooting continues I feel like that’s the last straw. We will lose a lot of games. 
 

Look at it this way….Fat ass Grant Williams who I watched closely at TN was not a shooter in college might I addd and he was out there pump faking getting Collins to bite  , putting the ball on the floor, stepping back and wetting 3s as well as spot up 3s.

 

LOL ….Collins don’t get no excuses. I’m not saying trade him..(yet)…but no ma’am JC doesn’t get any excuses.

JC is not impacting  the game at all. We need to remove the power  and just call him a forward. We could really use a low post presence when our shots aren't falling but he can't establish low post positioning. I think he is best in a wide open running game where he can set up before the defense is set or fill the lane on the break.

For us to beat the best teams we need his production. We just haven't gotten it.

[JTB]

3 hours ago, FL_BRYANT said:

JC is not impacting  the game at all. We need to remove the power  and just call him a forward. We could really use a low post presence when our shots aren't falling but he can't establish low post positioning. I think he is best in a wide open running game where he can set up before the defense is set or fill the lane on the break.

For us to beat the best teams we need his production. We just haven't gotten it.

Yup the thing is, is that when he can’t produce offensively and is only getting 10-12 points I feel like OO can give us that with much better defensive impact if he could play the 4 next to capela. I’d love to see OO playing center field defensively like a safety with our starters.

Mcmillian didn’t go to it but his zone defense could have helped stopped some of the Cs role players wide open 3s.

[JTB]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How many consistent play calls does he get?

Let's just agree to disagree. 

15 games.

Collins doesn’t get plays ran for him consistently. I’ve stated that several times among many others including yourself but we cannot use that as an excuse if Collins isn’t knocking down the open shots he is getting. If he were efficient all over the field like other seasons then it’s a great argument but until he starts to knock down his open shots efficiently again I see no reason to call his number any more than what they have been doing .

Collins shooting slump is different from Traes shooting slump and Murray’s shooting slump from 3.
 

It not comparable at ALL. Trae and Murray are working hard to create their own shot and also their teammates shots. Collins isn’t working consistently to create his own shot and definitely not setting up any teammates with his playmaking skills because that’s just not in his offensive arsenal . He doesn’t have the offensive skill to go get a bucket consistently without Trae or Murray’s playmaking therefore his catch and shoot attempts are golden and way better looks than the difficulty of shots Trae and Murray are trying to knock down.

No opponent is breathing down Collins neck offensively. He should be flourishing with Trae and Murray getting the majority offensive attention by far.

Edited November 17, 2022 by JTB

[Final_quest]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The shot chart says it all . . .

 

First game of the year I missed, and I don't plan to watch either.  That's an amazing story just looking at the chart.  Boston even hit 2 of the 3 mid range shots they took.  

At least this wasn't like losing to Houston by giving up 44 points in the 4th.