Official Game Thread: Hawks at Warriors

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Either Ressler himself thought '21 was a fluke run or he doesn't really mean this.  Trae's contract kicked in and he cut that $30M elsewhere after we went to the ECF.  That doesn't tell me he values winning.  The logic sucks anyways because you're not going to be a contender without spending in the first place.  Look at the top teams in the east right now, all of which are well into the tax...

• Celtics - 5th highest payroll
• Nets - 3rd highest payroll
• Bucks - 4th highest payroll

 

You aren't competing with those teams bringing the Holiday brothers off the bench and asking JJ and AJ, two very green rooks, to play heavy minutes.

 

Speaking of the rookies, that's the one wild card of this season.  Nate has to make a full commitment to play them regular rotation minutes.  And he can't get mad at them for a few missed defensive assignments, because this entire team misses defensive assignments.   

Giving random minutes to Justin Holiday isn't going to help this team's situation.  His only shot is to continue to develop AJ and JJ, and hope things click as the season wears on.   I really thought that JJ was playing his best ball of the year recently, so for him to basically get a DNP last night, is completely baffling to me.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Surprisingly, Murray and Trae have struggled big time playing with Bogi.

The defense in particularly with Trae and Bogi:

 

 

[Wretch]

59 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

@NBASupes you chime in on this too, since you always bring this up about Trae.

Can you name a starting PG that is good off the ball?  One that moves around within the offense and is able to get his points AND still facilitate to others?

It's obvious that Steph Curry does it.  But can you or someone else name 4 - 5 other PGs that can do this?

 

I want to see how you and others want Trae to play like, when he's off the ball.  

Please be specific, and not just say that "he doesn't move".  Who do you want him to move like, when he doesn't have the ball?

So, there's one thing that I have said and will continue to say until I'm blue in the face.  Let me preface this first by saying we are certainly at our best with the ball in Trae's hand: when he's running the offense and/or breaking down the defense.  We are at our best when he can attack and when he is putting up shots. Fully on board there.

However...

Trae is also a sniper.  This part of his game is criminally overlooked because he is so good at dribble penetration, PNR, and finding guys.  His shot is even discredited when people obsess over the numbers, ignoring the root cause.  Knowing how well he can shoot, how do we justify leaving that weapon sitting in the armory, only pulling it out situationally?  It's like printing money...lol.  Having another guy that can run the offense and/or pull defenders from the perimeter (which we found), reliable shooters, and ball/off ball movement gives us an INSANE option if Trae is in position to CNS cleanly. 

Can he free himself up to do it?  Personally, I don't see anything physically holding him back.  He's fast and small enough to slip though the defense.  He has a quick enough release and accuracy to hit even contested bombs.  We just need the system that facilitates it (which we should have been working on long ago).  How effective can he be?  Can't say, but man...I think we need to make it a priority.

I'm not saying we abandon the midrange or try to turn him into Curry or try to mirror the Warriors' offense.  I just think it will be a monumental oversight if we look back years from now having never found all the ways to take full advantage of Trae's shot...knowing what it could produce.

[JeffS17]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

The defense in particularly with Trae and Bogi:

 

 

This validates everything I've been saying about how the two of them are effectively unplayable together.  When you are giving up that many points, you need to make damn near all your shots to be a net positive on the court together.  Bogi + DJ lineups and DJ + Bogi lineups make a lot more sense, but DJ can't be on the floor all the time... and we don't have Delon anymore or Heurter who were good/passable defenders... 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

If I'm Nate, maybe I expand the rotation to 10 players,

Nate you say? 10 Players?  #The9isThe9 guy?

 

...then again he will tell you he played 10 guys last night with the 27 seconds he gave JJ. 

13 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

give Aaron Holiday a little more of an opportunity to run the 2nd team, instead of letting Murray do it.  This would pair Murray and Trae together more, and maybe give a little more freedom for Bogi and AJ to contribute more as a bench unit.

I actually would like to see that.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Surprisingly, Murray and Trae have struggled big time playing with Bogi.

This is facts... Bogi is a ball dominator at times too.. IF there is another gunner out there, i would trade for him.  Every weakness of Bogi is amplified in a tight game.   The bad defense.  The ball hoggery.  The lack of passing.  The Logo threes???

It's probably coaching. 

Bring in a coach who will force these guys to play in a system or sit them.  One who demands respect.

 

Ok.. I know. I know. 

but I agree, AHoli has earned more playing time. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Speaking of the rookies, that's the one wild card of this season.  Nate has to make a full commitment to play them regular rotation minutes.  And he can't get mad at them for a few missed defensive assignments, because this entire team misses defensive assignments.   

Giving random minutes to Justin Holiday isn't going to help this team's situation.  His only shot is to continue to develop AJ and JJ, and hope things click as the season wears on.   I really thought that JJ was playing his best ball of the year recently, so for him to basically get a DNP last night, is completely baffling to me.

Agreed.  I posted this article about the continued lack of player development.  It does not stop.

 

Quote

The Atlanta Hawks are not reaching the expectations that many in the fan base expected. One of the main issues that have plagued the team for almost two years is the lack of player development under head coach Nate McMillan. 

McMillan's statements about the developmental process indicate he prefers polished players or is already more developed. This is evident by observing his rotations. Playing time for rookies is critical to their maturation. Yet, McMillian seemingly wants to forego that vital part of team-building. That is why former assistant coach Chris Jent was such a huge loss for the team this offseason. 

Even Trae Young could still use development in areas of his game. But if McMillan is not developing his roster, how can he help the team's star grow?

If Atlanta suffers another early exit from the playoffs this spring and the front office moves on from McMillan during the summer, the front office must find a coach who can build a legitimate player-development system. Otherwise, history is bound to repeat itself.

 

 

Atlanta Hawks' Problems Can be Traced Back to Player Development - Sports Illustrated Atlanta Hawks News, Analysis and More

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

This validates everything I've been saying about how the two of them are effectively unplayable together.  When you are giving up that many points, you need to make damn near all your shots to be a net positive on the court together.  Bogi + DJ lineups and DJ + Bogi lineups make a lot more sense, but DJ can't be on the floor all the time... and we don't have Delon anymore or Heurter who were good/passable defenders... 

 

This is what I was talking about

 

 

 

Maybe all of this has to do with the absence of Capela, seeing that Bogi has barely played with him since his return.

And in that 5-man lineup, this is our closing unit with Capela out of the lineup.

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Speaking of the rookies, that's the one wild card of this season.  Nate has to make a full commitment to play them regular rotation minutes.  And he can't get mad at them for a few missed defensive assignments, because this entire team misses defensive assignments.   

Giving random minutes to Justin Holiday isn't going to help this team's situation.  His only shot is to continue to develop AJ and JJ, and hope things click as the season wears on.   I really thought that JJ was playing his best ball of the year recently, so for him to basically get a DNP last night, is completely baffling to me.

I feel like we'll see that with Griffin.  He has played 23 games in a row with 15-40 minutes.  Even though the minutes vary, that is consistently getting meaningful run night in and night out.  

JJ?  Not so much.  He has played 20+ minutes in 3 of his last 6 games.  He has played 4 minutes or less in 3 of his last 6 games.  He must show up to the game not having a clue what is going to happen.  That probably will get worse when CC returns.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

This is what I was talking about

 

 

 

Maybe all of this has to do with the absence of Capela, seeing that Bogi has barely played with him since his return.

And in that 5-man lineup, this is our closing unit with Capela out of the lineup.

Interesting.  Lots of positive Bogi/AJ lineups in there.  Wonder if the impact of having 3 or more shooters is a big positive.  The one Bogi/Griff combo that is negative is also the only one with three guys who don't space the floor with them.  With Trae, Hunter, AHol, etc. on with them they seem to be pretty positive.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

I feel like we'll see that with Griffin.  He has played 23 games in a row with 15-40 minutes.  Even though the minutes vary, that is consistently getting meaningful run night in and night out.  

JJ?  Not so much.  He has played 20+ minutes in 3 of his last 6 games.  He has played 4 minutes or less in 3 of his last 6 games.  He must show up to the game not having a clue what is going to happen.  That probably will get worse when CC returns.

I commented that when Bogi returns it was most likely that JJ sees his minutes cut which I think is a mistake.

But Nate loves his 9 man rotation.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[warcore]

12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

His Dad travels with the team???

or maybe not with but the tweet is from the Bay

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, warcore said:

His Dad travels with the team???

I do not know.

[JayBirdHawk]

Look at the shot clock time for each of these shots - we are playing with Pace.  Why don't/can't we do this with 5 minutes left in the game?

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, warcore said:

His Dad travels with the team???

or maybe not with but the tweet is from the Bay

he has enough money to buy his own plane ticket there I guess

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

This is what I mean about his dad.  He's proud of his son, as he should be, but he's not out here putting everything and everyone on blast.  He's content to sit back and let Trae be his own man, while also giving subtle hints.  This one isn't so subtle, but I think that's only because everyone is talking about how awful our offense looks.

[JayBirdHawk]

Trae's take on the pace.

 

 

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I do not know.

1 hour ago, warcore said:

His Dad travels with the team???

or maybe not with but the tweet is from the Bay

He has been there accompanying/mentoring Trae through every part of his journey.  I've said it before, but I really have a lot of respect for dude.  I have kids the same age as his.  I took them to all sorts of soccer games, dance recitals, and even Pokemon tournaments lol.  Anyone with kids that does this knows how exhausting it is.  He really put in a lot of work with Trae and he's still there supporting him every chance he gets.

I am 99% certain that he doesn't travel with the team.  It's pretty clear how he operates that he wants Trae to be his own man.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Look at the shot clock time for each of these shots - we are playing with Pace.  Why don't/can't we do this with 5 minutes left in the game?

 

The questions!  These are the questions!

"B-b-b-but we might turn the ball over or ramble, ramble, ramble ..." - iRobot