Official Game Thread: Hawks at Warriors

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I think before we can come to the conclusion that Trae can't be effective in a more sophisticated offense, we need to see him in one first.  The only coaches he's had at the pro level are Pierce and McMillan.

Meh.. The next coach will get blamed for the same things.. Just wait.. Trae just stands there when he doesnt have the ball.. smh

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I think before we can come to the conclusion that Trae can't be effective in a more sophisticated offense, we need to see him in one first.  The only coaches he's had at the pro level are Pierce and McMillan.

LP might have been a crap coach but he was considered one of the most brightness minds in coaching. Kerr and many others praised him and many of them blamed Trae for their breakup but to Trae's advantage, everyone said LP was a tyrant and not good to deal with like Chandler Parsons and many others so he got the benefit of doubt but the only people giving him the benefit with Nate is Hawk fans who think Nate's incompetent and Trae stans. I see that as interesting. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

LP might have been a crap coach but he was considering one of the most brightness minds in coaching. Kerr and many others praised him and many of them blamed Trae for their breakup but to Trae's advantage, everyone said LP was a tyrant and not good so he got the benefit of doubt but the only people giving him the benefit with Nate is Hawk fans who think Nate's incompetent and Trae stans. I see that as interesting. 

Because Nate had the exact same issues with Blazers and Pacers. Repeat - Exact same issues.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Meh.. The next coach will get blamed for the same things.. Just wait.. Trae just stands there when he doesnt have the ball.. smh

Trae is box office so upper management and ownership will always run to the idea of landing Trae Young. But most GMs and coaches don't want to deal with Trae. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Meh.. The next coach will get blamed for the same things.. Just wait.. Trae just stands there when he doesnt have the ball.. smh

That is a huge issue for Trae off the ball and why I said I didn't think that would really work when there was talk about it this offseason.  That said, I see a lot of DM standing around when he doesn't have the ball as well.  I do think there is a combination of the "system" encouraging it and individual responsibility of the player.  I would definitely want to see Trae in another system before I conclude he can't be successful.  (That could be moving effectively off the ball which he does none of today or could be a system where he is the primary ballhandler whenever he is on the floor but the system does more than Nate-ball.  Chris Paul has been the primary ballhandler for his career and clearly his offenses have been more than Nate-ball by virtue of the scheme more than by virtue of Paul being a great off-ball player.)

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Because Nate had the exact same issues with Blazers and Pacers. Repeat - Exact same issues.

This.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I can't help but lol @ the saltiness of this post.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely empathize and agree with the sentiment.  But dang burd, I've eaten pretzels and tortilla chips with less salt than what's sprinkled on this post.

File this response under 'laugh to keep from crying', btw. 

I didn't tell any lies. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Because Nate had the exact same issues with Blazers and Pacers. Repeat - Exact same issues.

He got stale for sure but it don't look as bad as this year. This is more than Nate. I honestly don't believe coaching is an issue. I do believe he's not as passionate as before and knows he's a sitting duck since the owner is too cheap to fire him as it would mean he would have to give someone else more salary and still pay Nate knowing that Nate isnt responsible for this.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/mcmilna01c.html

Edited January 3, 2023 by NBASupes

[FL_BRYANT]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

They had Trubisky at QB. It was self inflicted. I guess ours is self inflicted since we didn't resign Delon or keep Kevin because of the LT.

You really think adding Wiggins and Steph would give us a chance against GS?

8 and 8 with a rookie Qb says they never had tanking in mind because they had plenty of opportunities to do so after starting 2 and 6. They kept competing and they kept improving and look at them now. Not the greatest but much better heading into next year. Tanking doesn't develop the strong character needed to win championship. Do tanking teams win championships ? I don't know. They may win but what about rings. Go to work Hawks, don't look for an easy way out. PLAY BALL !!!

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is a huge issue for Trae off the ball and why I said I didn't think that would really work when there was talk about it this offseason.  That said, I see a lot of DM standing around when he doesn't have the ball as well.  I do think there is a combination of the "system" encouraging it and individual responsibility of the player.  I would definitely want to see Trae in another system before I conclude he can't be successful.  (That could be moving effectively off the ball which he does none of today or could be a system where he is the primary ballhandler whenever he is on the floor but the system does more than Nate-ball.  Chris Paul has been the primary ballhandler for his career and clearly his offenses have been more than Nate-ball by virtue of the scheme more than by virtue of Paul being a great off-ball player.)

This.

CP3 is a good off ball player. And they play the same system in PHX as we do.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I honestly don't believe coaching is an issue.

If you owned a team and were hiring a coach, would you hire Nate for this roster?  Everything I hoped to see from a coach with Trae and DM, I have not seen.  I don't see anything schematically to optimize them - just a "take turns running the team while the other one stands by" approach which is hard for me to watch.  I've already said my piece for Nate down the stretch.  Putting Bogi in to defend, emphasizing running the clock over running plays, etc.

I don't think Nate is hard to read for when he is upset with what is happening on the floor, and I see an offensive scheme that makes my eyes bleed at times and Nate seems perfectly content with it.

[Watchman]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Is Nate stupid? I don’t understand. If I’m OO I stay on the damn court and say.. YOU WRONG COACH. Make it thing if it right there. Wtf how you gonna leave OO out the last play???? You not watching all the defensive plays he made during the game Nate? Fckin Nate.

He's trying to get fired so he gets all of his remaining contract rather than retiring at season end and only getting some sort of negotiated buyout.

[Jody23]

A huge part of Trae standing is because off ball action isn't really apart of the offense.  He's not the only guy who stands.  They all do it.  He's has AJ Griffin stand in the corner for 90% of his floor time.  You've got to make ball and man movementva staple of your offense.  Does it mean no iso whatsoever?  No, but there needs to be balance.  I don't compare Steph to Trae because they're entirely two different players, but Steph didn't have the off ball game we know him for now prior to Kerr.  Off ball movement shouldn't just be happenstance.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, FL_BRYANT said:

8 and 8 with a rookie Qb says they never had tanking in mind because they had plenty of opportunities to do so after starting 2 and 6. They kept competing and they kept improving and look at them now. Not the greatest but much better heading into next year. Tanking doesn't develop the strong character needed to win championship. Do tanking teams win championships ? I don't know. They may win but what about rings. Go to work Hawks, don't look for an easy way out. PLAY BALL !!!

Pickett didn't start games till week 5 and they are 6-4 in games he starts and gets to play the full game. Mitch went 2-4. That played a major role was just switching the QB.

[Jody23]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LP might have been a crap coach but he was considered one of the most brightness minds in coaching. Kerr and many others praised him and many of them blamed Trae for their breakup but to Trae's advantage, everyone said LP was a tyrant and not good to deal with like Chandler Parsons and many others so he got the benefit of doubt but the only people giving him the benefit with Nate is Hawk fans who think Nate's incompetent and Trae stans. I see that as interesting. 

No shade, but how many head coaching gigs has he had since Atlanta?  How many times has his name come up with vacancies?

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He got stale for sure but it don't look as bad as this year. This is more than Nate. I honestly don't believe coaching is an issue. I do believe he's not as passionate as before and knows he's a sitting duck since the owner is too cheap to fire him as it would mean he would have to give someone else more salary and still pay Nate knowing that Nate isnt responsible for this.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/mcmilna01c.html

I can't believe you said that with a straight face. 

 

Yes, this is more than just Nate from Owner/GM on down but if you don't think coaching is an issue.......

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

If you owned a team and were hiring a coach, would you hire Nate for this roster?  Everything I hoped to see from a coach with Trae and DM, I have not seen.  I don't see anything schematically to optimize them - just a "take turns running the team while the other one stands by" approach which is hard for me to watch.  I've already said my piece for Nate down the stretch.  Putting Bogi in to defend, emphasizing running the clock over running plays, etc.

Depends on my options. For what it was at that time, yes. The system is self sufficient and Nate is know for getting the most out of teams in the RS but like Thibs, has a rep of wearing thin, in his case, getting stale. 

I don't believe anyone would do better with this. The better coaches would have serious animosity to Trae whereas Nate is more forgiving and bowing. 

Coaches with scheme don't last one with players Iike Trae and Kyrie. They get in the way of their creative genius too much. Guys like Vaughn and Nate are good for those guys.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

No shade, but how many head coaching gigs has he had since Atlanta?  How many times has his name come up with vacancies?

He's a top asst in Indiana and they still have him as a part of Team USA. He will get another chance but he has to learn better people skills with players. Hopefully, he gets an older cast to deal with instead of kids. 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:21 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Here's the thing with this concept.  This has to be a designed play, you don't want Trae doing a Bazemore (running like a headless chicken), you have to have Trae move with intention and purpose, to have a designed play where he gets the ball back in shooting position. Running offscreens etc requires teammates to set those screens, they have to know when that's happening to set effective screens if that's the play call. Ask Nate if he has any designed plays for this type of action for Trae.

I will say, that when Trae gives up the ball he needs to reposition himself and not stay in the same spot.

This ^^^^^

10 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

A huge part of Trae standing is because off ball action isn't really apart of the offense.  He's not the only guy who stands.  They all do it.  He's has AJ Griffin stand in the corner for 90% of his floor time.  You've got to make ball and man movementva staple of your offense.  Does it mean no iso whatsoever?  No, but there needs to be balance.  I don't compare Steph to Trae because they're entirely two different players, but Steph didn't have the off ball game we know him for now prior to Kerr.  Off ball movement shouldn't just be happenstance.

Above is what I posted regarding Trae off ball.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I can't believe you said that with a straight face. 

 

Yes, this is more than just Nate from Owner/GM on down but if you don't think coaching is an issue.......

Ya'll gotta stop looking for a scapegoat.

[Atlantaholic]

38 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So do we get a pass when teams beat us when we're missing players?

Who's giving a pass? Diesel said those wins prove we are elite. They obviously don't. That's all the other poster was pointing out. Our team fully healthy wasn't playing amazing ball, we were around 16th in orating and 11th in Drating having faced a weak schedule wtih an  SRS (point differential weighed by strength of schedule) of 15.

We were a mediocre team with an infalted record and now that we have faced some adversity with injuries we have obviously collapsed because we aren't good. A fully healthy Hawks team with Bogi and Cap playing 82 games might get us 48-50 wins. That's the ceiling for this team and it's an impossible ceiling  becacuse Bogi and Cap are hurt often,