The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[kg01]

42 minutes ago, AHF said:

What is Kawhi winning that Joel isn't?  

Last 3 years:  

Joel -  Regular Season: 154 wins; Playoffs:  18-15

Kawhi - Regular Seasons:  133 wins; Playoffs:  11-13

Hmmm....

Did you pick 3 years because it supports your point, AH?

[thecampster]

A few rumors I consider valuable to state here. Please for the love of everything spicy, do not run off the rail with these.

 

Hawks are interested in trading out of the 15th pick to combine with a vet for a roster upgrade. They are not convinced the 15th pick can help them in the next 2 seasons. If no one intrigues them at 15, they may trade it for future picks to make up for what they've traded away beyond this year.

 

Quinn is valuing the ability to guard 3 positions to stop teams from hunting players in switches. Player movement will center around moving players who can't guard 3 positions. Quinn feels Trae turns a mediocre offensive player into a functional offensive player. Turns good into great.  He's willing to downgrade offense to get more complete defensive players around Trae.

 

Specific players on the roster have been given marching orders to work on their perimeter defense if they want the minutes they think they deserve. Bigs need to be able to guard down on the perimeter. Smaller players need to get better at dig downs and doubles in the post.

 

Offseason players being targeted will be targeted because they can do the above and cause changes of possession (turnovers and blocks) as well as can create longer clocks.  This is the interesting thing I was told.  It was how quick other teams possessions were against us. He wants opposing offenses to have to work for their scores to slow momentum.

 

On momentum.  Teams could score quickly on us through isolation, targeting and forcing switches.  It led to them erasing leads quickly and limited our "pressure" on the scoreboard.  Teams didn't fear the Hawks getting up by 10 because they felt they could erase that in 4 possessions in a minute and a half.  Quinn wants teams to feel uncomfortable when we get a lead.  More forced turnovers, longer possessions on defense.  Players that can create that.

[RedDawg#8]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

A few rumors I consider valuable to state here. Please for the love of everything spicy, do not run off the rail with these.

 

Hawks are interested in trading out of the 15th pick to combine with a vet for a roster upgrade. They are not convinced the 15th pick can help them in the next 2 seasons. If no one intrigues them at 15, they may trade it for future picks to make up for what they've traded away beyond this year.

 

Quinn is valuing the ability to guard 3 positions to stop teams from hunting players in switches. Player movement will center around moving players who can't guard 3 positions. Quinn feels Trae turns a mediocre offensive player into a functional offensive player. Turns good into great.  He's willing to downgrade offense to get more complete defensive players around Trae.

 

Specific players on the roster have been given marching orders to work on their perimeter defense if they want the minutes they think they deserve. Bigs need to be able to guard down on the perimeter. Smaller players need to get better at dig downs and doubles in the post.

 

Offseason players being targeted will be targeted because they can do the above and cause changes of possession (turnovers and blocks) as well as can create longer clocks.  This is the interesting thing I was told.  It was how quick other teams possessions were against us. He wants opposing offenses to have to work for their scores to slow momentum.

 

On momentum.  Teams could score quickly on us through isolation, targeting and forcing switches.  It led to them erasing leads quickly and limited our "pressure" on the scoreboard.  Teams didn't fear the Hawks getting up by 10 because they felt they could erase that in 4 possessions in a minute and a half.  Quinn wants teams to feel uncomfortable when we get a lead.  More forced turnovers, longer possessions on defense.  Players that can create that.

All of this makes sense and says to me JJ and OO have more value to us than JC and CC.

Dre and Bey are switchable but not as effective creating turnovers and extending possessions as mentioned.

JJ is the lone player who checks all these boxes as stated. He is in for a major bump in minutes if this is true.

[thecampster]

Let me explain that "momentum" thing with a few screen shots.

FGA/game - Hawks are golden here at 92.4/game with a respectable 48.3% FG%...but 30.5 3PA/game at 35.2%

 

Now look at opponent  90.2 shots per game at 48.6% and 33.5 3PA/game at 35.6%

 

 

The takeaway is we got more shots due to less turnovers and more offensive rebounds (thanks Clint/OO) but even though we were a top offense in the league, we also made everyone else equally good or better on offense.

 

In games, it meant teams never quit on us. They always felt they could get back in it (the OKC comeback stings). The other team came down the floor, got into a set, targeted someone on defense, switched and scored.  That simple and they did it fast, very fast. Which is why the assessment. This is part of the reason he wanted a completely new assistant coaching staff, to eliminate voices that could slow the change.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

All of this makes sense and says to me JJ and OO have more value to us than JC and CC.

Dre and Bey are switchable but not as effective creating turnovers and extending possessions as mentioned.

JJ is the lone player who checks all these boxes as stated. He is in for a major bump in minutes if this is true.

JJ did not guard 1-3 well last year. He got blown by a lot.  He's someone told he needs to work on perimeter D....on ball D on smaller players.  Bruno didn't see the floor much because he can't guard on the perimeter at all and has been told to work on it all offseason (if back).

[JustSomeGuy]

So natural question is who, besides Trae and Clint, fits the stated criteria? Maybe Hunter? 

[JustSomeGuy]

Also very interested in seeing how JJ comes back this off-season 

[Gray Mule]

When, at season's end, the coach says, "Here's what you all need to work on before next season. That means everyone. This is where the team is weakest.  If you don't want to do this, let me know now.  I'll talk to the GM and we will see if we can find you another team to play for."

Edited May 26, 2023 by Gray Mule

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

All of this makes sense and says to me JJ and OO have more value to us than JC and CC.

Dre and Bey are switchable but not as effective creating turnovers and extending possessions as mentioned.

JJ is the lone player who checks all these boxes as stated. He is in for a major bump in minutes if this is true.

How sway??...

I disagree on JJ.   I think we have wished JJ into something that he's not.  You would think he was the next coming of KD if you read this board.   I didn't see the ability to guard 3 positions watching JJ.  Barely one position and we have to figure out which position that is.

JJ is an uber athletic young player.   Let's develop him and see what we got instead of just making up stuff. 

 

OO has the same sort of fan fare wishes.  I watched the Celtics carve him up.  Every Celtic.  Brown.  Smart.  White. Brogdon.   Yes, he's still young.  Yes, he will develop... but let's stop the tall tales.   He didn't show up until the 5th game of the series.   Clint put in work against Miami and he was serviceable against Boston.  OO is at the cusp of taking over the center spot but there's still something missing.  

Dropping Bey would be a problem.  I would rather lose Dre than Bey right now.. and honestly, I'd rather keep both. 

 

[NekiEcko]

@thecampster

Thank you for that information and I wholeheartedly agree with this.  This team was carved up by switches all year and sacrificing some offense for defense is a good idea too because Trae can make them into better offensive players because of his presence.  Now the question is who fit that bill on this, what players in the league that fit that profile and the asking price for those players.  

[AHF]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Hmmm....

Did you pick 3 years because it supports your point, AH?

What would you consider a more relevant timeframe to predict future performance?

Beyond that, it isn't like if you go back 6 years it really changes things.  Kawhi missed one entire season during that period and his first LAC team was very on part with PHI.  His teams won 47, 58, and 49 games which is slightly better than Embiid.

Philly and Embiid won 52, 51 and 43 games.  

The only year that really distinguishes them in my book is the single season in Toronto.  But Kawhi has never been able to repeat that and will be 32 next season so I just don't see some big edge that Kawhi has when I look at what you should expect from them over the next 3 years.  

I don't mean this as a slam on either player.  They are both absolute studs with significant injury risk.

[HawksNWaffles]

Thanks for the info

 

[bird_dirt]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

A few rumors I consider valuable to state here. Please for the love of everything spicy, do not run off the rail with these.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

 I didn't see the ability to guard 3 positions watching JJ.

We saw different things, then...

SF, PF and some Cs. That's 3 positions I saw him guard adequately to effectvely.

I don't get the report from our friend camp. I saw a lot  better defense than I expected to see... and all the way around. But then again, no one pays me for my scouting reports (yet... maybe can be a retirement side hustle, tho, who knows. ).

The errors I saw seemed to be more about knowing where he belonged in a given defensive set.... mental.

 

Don't think it's practical to think that JJ's ever going to be able to guard SGs consistently... at least in the 6-5 range. Sure, work on it, and see, but very few PFs are able to legitimately be that.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

Hawks are interested in trading out of the 15th pick to combine with a vet for a roster upgrade. They are not convinced the 15th pick can help them in the next 2 seasons.....

Landry is my burner account apparently. 

[kg01]

42 minutes ago, AHF said:

What would you consider a more relevant timeframe to predict future performance?

Doesn't matter, if I'm being honest.  Nothing will change my mind on JelloPudding.  I'd take Kawhi, injuries and all, over him any day.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

Hawks are interested in trading out of the 15th pick to combine with a vet for a roster upgrade.

No shit Sherlock. I mean ummm, we value your inside(her) input.  #eyyyydayyy

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

So natural question is who, besides Trae and Clint, fits the stated criteria? Maybe Hunter? 

#15 plus one of the vets to me means: CC, JC Dre and Bogi....based on number of seasons.

[JayBirdHawk]

So based on camps rumor above...which player would you target for the 'ROSTER UPGRADE'?

#15 plus CC = ?

#15 plus JC = ?

#15 plus Dre = ?

#15 plus Bogi = ?

[terrell]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So based on camps rumor above...which player would you target for the 'ROSTER UPGRADE'?

#15 plus CC = ?

#15 plus JC = ?

#15 plus Dre = ?

#15 plus Bogi = ?

Not Bogi.... We cant lose More shooting....

Edited May 26, 2023 by terrell