Evaluating and How to Evaluate Coaching Candidates (split off thread)

[shakes]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

Of course, it's just not that simple. You know that. We all know that.

 

Parcells would say I can only cook the meal that you brought me the groceries to cook.

"... he said, after having written about 100 words on results."

Okay. hehe

No, I get it. You like the hardass imagery... it fits how you think, Scott Skiles admirer that you are.

Me, I don't think there's one way to get the job done. Effectiveness is so very complex. You don't solve all your problems just b/c the coach is considered a hardass or just b/c he's not considered a hardass. More complicated than that.

lol at Sturt commenting on someone posting excess words.  Pot kettle etc.

 

You sure do say a lot sometimes without actually saying anything of substance.    Obviously I know there's not just one way to get the job done and obviously you don't solve all problems because the coach is a hardass.    Of course it's more complicated than that.

 

I honestly think half the time you post just to hear yourself talk because half the time your posts are just condescending nonsense.

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I wanted to punch his face every night. If I was one of his teammates I prolly woulda choked his dumb a$$.

 

I'd bet a mortgage payment that 99% of the people who played with Skiles loved him as a teammate.

[sturt]

Just now, shakes said:

excess

My friend, you seem to misread me a lot.

I didn't say nor mean to imply that you wrote "excessive" words.

You had a point to make, and you tried to offer support for your point.

All I said, rather, was that you just invested all that support for a point, that you then, turn around and suggest isn't really an important point to you after all ("results").

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

You sure do say a lot sometimes without actually saying anything of substance.

Your right to judge as a reader, of course.

My right to figure that take as the natural one of someone who simply disagrees with a chunk of what I ever say.

Nothing to me.

 

5 minutes ago, shakes said:

Of course it's more complicated than that.

Then say that. As opposed to what you wrote.

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, shakes said:

I honestly think half the time you post just to hear yourself talk because half the time your posts are just condescending nonsense.

Of course you do.

[shakes]

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Notice after the Bulls he's managed to win 2 playoff games in 5 seasons of coaching and has a sub .500 record.   His last team that achieved (which he was fired from) featured Rose/Butler/Noah/Gasol.  

I think the rep is all on the backs of those Bulls guys and he has yet to show that he's getting anything out of teams without HOF'rs. 

That's a lot of revisionist history regarding his time with the Bulls.  Butler was in college when the Bulls went to the ECF.    And the year after the ECF Rose tore up his knee game one of the first round.  

[kg01]

@Spud2nique, get the popcorn.  Stu v shakes battle underway... 

[Sothron]

You guys are better than this and you know it. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

 

He's coached 9 seasons and missed the playoffs twice.  He also took Minnesota to the playoffs which is about the highest honor you can achieve as a basketball coach.  Been to the conference finals once and the second round twice.

Nate has coached 17 seasons and missed the playoffs in 6 of them.  He's been to the conference finals once and out of the first round 1 other time.

Thibs gets out of the first round 33% of the time he makes the playoffs.  Nate gets out of the first round 18% of the time and has lost in the first round 8 of the last 9 times he has been there.

 

Besides results I'm more concerned with mindset and how their teams play,

Thing about it...   Thibbs has always had an allstar or set of allstars in hand.  I think Nate had Oladipo.. and a bunch of other guys who got hurt. 

 

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

@Spud2nique, get the popcorn.  Stu v shakes battle underway... 

 

 

 

[shakes]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Thing about it...   Thibbs has always had an allstar or set of allstars in hand.  I think Nate had Oladipo.. and a bunch of other guys who got hurt. 

 

here come the excuses!     Diesel's world where only guys on his team get injured!  

 

Think about...   Thibs took the Minnesota Timberwolves to the playoffs.  

 

Thibs took teh Bulls to the ECF with 1 ALL STAR.   Nate had a guy named Paul George as well.  Brandon Roy in Portland. and had 3 all stars in Seattle in Payton, Allen and Lewis.

 

[Vol4ever]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Wasn't this LPs strategy?

He had no strategy.  

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, kg01 said:

@Spud2nique, get the popcorn.  Stu v shakes battle underway... 

Stu and Shakes in one gif!

[macdaddy]

47 minutes ago, shakes said:

Think about...   Thibs took the Minnesota Timberwolves to the playoffs.  

He coached 3 seasons in Minny and took them to the playoffs once.   I wonder what was different about that year than the other two?

[AHF]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

She's getting treated by some as-if she's so distinguished herself, any team with post season expectations and a vacancy should scoop her up.

"Better"... what makes her better.

I don't hand my team with post-season expectations off to a rookie head coach, regardless of anatomy.

I might very well do that if my team is in a developmental phase.

Even then. She's one in the pool, and at that, she's not even necessarily the best of the pool. She's a reasonable option.

Seems pretty obvious to me that the interest in her is as another of Pop's coaching tree.  A bunch of Pop's assistants have been hired as head coaches and it has been assumed that learning under him is pretty much top tier prep for head coaching jobs.  Add in how Pops has gone to bat for her so publicly:

Quote

"We didn't hire Becky to make history," Popovich said. "She earned it. She is qualified. She's wonderful at what she does. I wanted her on my staff because of the work that she does. And she happens to be a woman, which basically should be irrelevant, but it's not in our world."

"She's somebody who's very skilled and could very easily fulfill the duties of a head coach in the NBA," he added, "That goes without saying."

"To a lot of other people [her stepping in as head coach for a game] meant a lot. I can understand that," Popovich said. "[But] there are women in every other endeavor in the world, whether it's government, science, technology, aviation, it doesn't matter what it is. Women do the same jobs as well and better than men. That's a fact. There's no reason why somebody like Becky and other women can't be coaches in the NBA."

"On a larger scale, that's why it wasn't a big deal to me — because I know her," he added. "And I know her skills, and I know her value and I know her future is very, very bright."

She is a HOFer in the women's game and for men with HOF resumes that generally means they can get hired with little to no experience beyond their time as a player. (See coaches like Steve Nash, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Chauncey Billups and many others who are hired with zero or minimal coaching experience).  

She also stepped in as head coach of the Las Vegas Aces this year and led them to their first WNBA championship (which I'd consider roughly  equivalent to winning a title for the many college coaches who have made the leap even with no NBA coaching experience like Rick Pitino, Billy Donovan, Fred Hoiberg, Brad Stevens, etc.)

So on the whole, I would say that her combination of:

WNBA HOFer

Popovich acolyte and

Sub-NBA Championship winning coach

make her better qualified than most candidates even if I don't grant her WNBA HOF career the same weight that an NBA HOFer carries.

 

In short, I'm not sure there are many other candidates who haven't already been successful NBA head coaches that can match her resume.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

@Spud2nique, get the popcorn.  Stu v shakes battle underway... 

I got something heavier let’s roll! 
 

So you’re making me watch Warriors vs Celts..

d*ck!

[shakes]

26 minutes ago, sturt said:

Over my head. But that's fine.

None of this is personal. Battle (per kg)? There's no battle.

He (shakes) and every other poster is welcome to their right to an opinion. He and every other person is welcome to point out and make the case for discrepancies, overstatements and understatements they see that, as they choose. As am I. Nothing to see here.

yea, nothing to see here.   I like Sturt.  he brings a lot of content and discussion the site.  I like that.  Not as much as I enjoy giving him a hard time about said content, but there's no such thing as bad attention.

[Spud2nique]

29 minutes ago, sturt said:

There's no battle.

Huh. {hands stu a sword ) shut up and fight your friend Shakes! 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

In short, I'm not sure there are many other candidates who haven't already been successful NBA head coaches that can match her resume.  

From where I sit, Tim Duncan can match her resume' and then some, given the criteria you celebrate (rightfully so) here.

I'm not a fan of Steve Nash kinds of hires... so that speaks perhaps to my greater allergy here. Sure, it happens occasionally, but should it? Count me with those who would tend to vote no, and at that, regardless of what phase (developmental or contending) a given team is in.

Pop's endorsement is persuasive... except... wait... it's news that a head coach endorses his assistant?

In what world?

Her resume' is above average. I'm just guessing, so don't hold me to a specific number, but it's my perception probably 6-ish others can boast something similar.

She's an option for the right situation. An option. Right situation. There are other options approximately as attractive. There are limited right situations.

(Since this seems to be a live wire conversation coming up a couple of times now, I suppose at some point I'm going to have to generate the list of assistant coaches who I would consider to be in the same pool with Becky. But it can't be today.)

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, sturt said:

She's

 

6 minutes ago, sturt said:

attractive

 

That’s fine and dandy Stu but can she coach?

Edited February 1, 2023 by Spud2nique

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, shakes said:

 I like Sturt.

Come here, ya big lug... I can't stay mad at you.....