Trae and DJM snubbed from All Star game

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, shakes said:

A.  We're not winning.

B.  Why would you include Western conference teams?

those are teams that sent a player to the all star game.   We are winning more than these teams.   

[shakes]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

those are teams that sent a player to the all star game.   We are winning more than these teams.   

but they're in a different conference and not competing with Trae for an all start spot.  So how are they relevant?

[sturt]

14 hours ago, sturt said:

Indeed, it can. Took a little time to work it out... basketball paradise for two days. Saturday sessions at noon, 3 pm and 7 pm. Sunday sessions at noon and 3 pm, then having the grand finale session that evening beginning at 7 pm. Imagine 6 division all-star teams composed of 8 players each... and actually competing for something tangible, yet not having to overexert themselves either, only playing a single 12 minute quarter at a time, 3 on Saturday, and either 2 or 3 on Sunday. Imagine a March Madness-like broadcast, with ESPN (or other) signing on at 11:00 am that Saturday and again Sunday, and not signing off until games are finished sometime around 9 in the evening.

Ya know how you can get infatuated with your own ideas sometimes?

Well, I'm really hyped about this one, given the better part of 24 hours to reflect on it.

 

Ya know how we detest how the All-Star Game is an exhibition game that gets played like it's an exhibition game?... that no one really cares that much, and even with the Elam Ending rules, essentially they wait until the end of the game to give a flip?

 

What's missing, I propose, is the most basic of sports motivation... lack of any ego reward... whether you win or lose, it's all the same. No one remembers who won in any given year. The idea of the two opponents being "teams" is pure pretense. They're players wearing two different jerseys, but having no "team" bond wherein their own ego is invested in winning.

 

I propose that having 6 division all-star teams goes a long way toward remedying that, because now, there's actually an inherent competition involved. You're not just the one of two teams, you're the one of six teams that could brag that your group/division has the best talent. And it does that through a means that gets most of the players on the floor for a big chunk of the time that they're playing, while not wearing players out since they only play in 12 minute splices.

 

A guy can dream, can't he?

 

[TRW]

3 hours ago, shakes said:

Those are the simple facts.   He got raw stats that look good and literally nothing else.

As for disrespecting Trae, how are you a Hawks fan and you don't know how to spell his name?

Shakes you got me. I call it being under the influence of sleep. You're right it's Trae, not Tray.

[thecampster]

The case for Trae Young to be an all-star this year.  Remember, we're talking Eastern Conference as his competition.

 

Trae is 2nd in ppg among Eastern Conference Point Guards.  1/10th of a point behind Kyrie. Its reasonable by the all star game he could be 1st here.

Trae is tied for 4th in ppg among Eastern Conference Guards.  1/10th of a point behind Kyrie, D. Mitchell and tied with Jaylen Brown. Its reasonable by the all star game he could be 1st here.

Trae is 2nd among all guards in the Eastern Conference in assists per game.  1/3 of an assist behind Haliburton.

1st in the East among all guards in FTA per game.

1st in the East among all guards in FTM per game.

Trae has been routinely gimped in assists this year by his team shooting terrible from 3 most of the year.

Trae has been routinely gimped in assists this year by "miss a bunny" Capela.

Trae has been routinely gimped in points this year by "The Trae rules" officiating.

He has seen visible improvement on the defensive end.

 

The case against Trae young to be an all-star this year.

He pisses people off on the regular.  Fans, coaches, opposing players with his theatrics, nutmegs, disrespect.

Whines to the refs too much.

Foul hunts.

Shooting a poor percentage from 3.

 

Discuss!!!

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by thecampster

[shakes]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The case for Trae Young to be an all-star this year.  Remember, we're talking Eastern Conference as his competition.

 

Trae is 2nd in ppg among Eastern Conference Point Guards.  1/10th of a point behind Kyrie. Its reasonable by the all star game he could be 1st here.

Trae is tied for 4th in ppg among Eastern Conference Guards.  1/10th of a point behind Kyrie, D. Mitchell and tied with Jaylen Brown. Its reasonable by the all star game he could be 1st here.

Trae is 2nd among all guards in the Eastern Conference in assists per game.  1/3 of an assist behind Haliburton.

1st in the East among all guards in FTA per game.

1st in the East among all guards in FTM per game.

Trae has been routinely gimped in assists this year by his team shooting terrible from 3 most of the year.

Trae has been routinely gimped in assists this year by "miss a bunny" Capela.

Trae has been routinely gimped in points this year by "The Trae rules" officiating.

He has seen visible improvement on the defensive end.

 

The case against Trae young to be an all-star this year.

He pisses people off on the regular.  Fans, coaches, opposing players with his theatrics, nutmegs, disrespect.

Whines to the refs too much.

Foul hunts.

Shooting a poor percentage from 3.

 

Discuss!!!

 

the bolded should never be mentioned as a positive.     The rest of the positives are just based on counting stats which no one really cares about these days.  They mean nothing unless you show them in the context of the advanced stats as well.

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

but they're in a different conference and not competing with Trae for an all start spot.  So how are they relevant?

I don't know what to tell you.   I was addressing all these "rules" for making an all star team in any conference and one of them seems to be that the player be on a winning team.  I think you mentioned that right?   Those were examples of four losing teams that have guys in the all star game.   So that seems relevant to me.   

[JayBirdHawk]

It's a different set of baseline rules when it comes to Trae and Atlanta players in general and their perception as long as they are Hawks......see Joe Jesus(Nets) and Al Horford(Boston).

Trae may or may not be deserving but so are a few who were actually selected.

If coaches want to hold some imaginary grudge, he'll never get the call unless voted in by the fans.

[shakes]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I don't know what to tell you.   I was addressing all these "rules" for making an all star team in any conference and one of them seems to be that the player be on a winning team.  I think you mentioned that right?   Those were examples of four losing teams that have guys in the all star game.   So that seems relevant to me.   

Everything is relevant except one thing.  Comparing Eastern conference selections to Western conference selections.   

[AHF]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

DeMar Derozan vs Trae Young

Team Success:  Trae's team is 2 games better than 50% winning % when he plays.  Derozan's team is 2 games worse.  The Bulls have a losing record and are two spots behind Atlanta in the standings.  Notably, this kind of difference has been the exact rationale offered in the past to exclude Trae so what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Individual Numbers:  Trae's counting stats per game are significantly better with more points and double the assists.  On a per minute basis the gap grows wider with Trae averaging 27.4 PP36 compared to 25.8 pp36 for DD.  Trae's 3 rpg as a PG actually looks good compared to DD's 4.8 as a forward.  Defensive stats are similar.  

Advanced Numbers:  Trae is as good or better in:  WAR, RAPTOR, PER, VORP, and BPM.  Notably, DeRozan actually doesn't even lead his team in WAR, RAPTOR, VORP and BPM (Trae leads the Hawks in all except RAPTOR where CC is higher).  

Eligibility:  Trae plays guard and is therefore eligible to be selected as a guard.  DD plays forward and should only be eligible as a forward.  The Bulls start two of Caruso, Dosunmu and LaVine at PG and SG so this is not a question.  DD plays more PF than SG.

Cough

[Sothron]

So I heard from one of my Hawks sources. This person confirmed that Trae was offered the chance to be an injury replacement in 2021 AND 2023 and he turned it down  both times. Apparently Trae was upset he wasn't either voted in as a starter or selected as an initial reserve so he refused the injury replacement offer.

I can't speak for anyone else but while I understand his anger/disappointment I can't agree with this. You never turn down the chance to be an All Star even if it is injury replacement. That's two AS selections he'll never have on his resume. 

There's healthy ego and then there's cutting your nose off to spite your face. I know which one this is. 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

So I heard from one of my Hawks sources. This person confirmed that Trae was offered the chance to be an injury replacement in 2021 AND 2023 and he turned it down  both times. Apparently Trae was upset he wasn't either voted in as a starter or selected as an initial reserve so he refused the injury replacement offer.

I can't speak for anyone else but while I understand his anger/disappointment I can't agree with this. You never turn down the chance to be an All Star even if it is injury replacement. That's two AS selections he'll never have on his resume. 

There's healthy ego and then there's cutting your nose off to spite your face. I know which one this is. 

I can see it both ways.   I think in 21 he should have taken it.   This year i agree with him turning it down.  It was obvious he wasn't selected because of people's personal feelings about him rather than performance.   And Trae now has this bad rap of being difficult or whatever and takes so much heat while others are treated with kid gloves.   Can you imagine if this was Trae?   It'd be front page news what a douche he is but since it's SGA that dude is still enjoying some kind of Ja-like honeymoon of adoration.  

 

 

[kg01]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I can see it both ways.   I think in 21 he should have taken it.   This year i agree with him turning it down.  It was obvious he wasn't selected because of people's personal feelings about him rather than performance.   And Trae now has this bad rap of being difficult or whatever and takes so much heat while others are treated with kid gloves.   Can you imagine if this was Trae?   It'd be front page news what a douche he is but since it's SGA that dude is still enjoying some kind of Ja-like honeymoon of adoration.  

 

 

Agree with all this.

Regardimg the SGA stuff, NBA players have grown so out of touch.  I don't begrudge anyone for making lots of money but you gotta find a way to stay grounded.  Turn off the fans and all the money goes away.  They're more than halfway there at this point. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

So I heard from one of my Hawks sources. This person confirmed that Trae was offered the chance to be an injury replacement in 2021 AND 2023 and he turned it down  both times. Apparently Trae was upset he wasn't either voted in as a starter or selected as an initial reserve so he refused the injury replacement offer.

I can't speak for anyone else but while I understand his anger/disappointment I can't agree with this. You never turn down the chance to be an All Star even if it is injury replacement. That's two AS selections he'll never have on his resume. 

There's healthy ego and then there's cutting your nose off to spite your face. I know which one this is. 

Agreed..He's just pissing them off even more... Smh. Have some humility for once.. Youre representing the TEAM and the CITY, not just yourself..

[shakes]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Agree with all this.

Regardimg the SGA stuff, NBA players have grown so out of touch.  I don't begrudge anyone for making lots of money but you gotta find a way to stay grounded.  Turn off the fans and all the money goes away.  They're more than halfway there at this point. 

agreed.  I've found that I've lost a lot of interest in teh NBA.  A couple years ago I would watch the 2-3 NBA games per night and way more on weekends.  This year I haven't watched a single NBA game other than Hawks games.   For one, I refuse to watch a game (other than Hawks) if any key player is injured or resting.  That right there has pretty much eliminated every game this season.    I hate Lebron, Kyrie, Durant and have no interest in watching any of them play so that eliminates some games.

I've turned back to college ball which is way more interesting than the NBA these days. Also found my way back to hockey where the players make fun of the NBA anytime someone suggests they start load managing.  Love watching Connor McDavid play.

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Agree with all this.

Regardimg the SGA stuff, NBA players have grown so out of touch.  I don't begrudge anyone for making lots of money but you gotta find a way to stay grounded.  Turn off the fans and all the money goes away.  They're more than halfway there at this point. 

I only watch Hawks games! 

I used to be such an avid basketball fan, trying to watch most games. Not anymore.

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, shakes said:

agreed.  I've found that I've lost a lot of interest in teh NBA.  A couple years ago I would watch the 2-3 NBA games per night and way more on weekends.  This year I haven't watched a single NBA game other than Hawks games.   For one, I refuse to watch a game (other than Hawks) if any key player is injured or resting.  That right there has pretty much eliminated every game this season.    I hate Lebron, Kyrie, Durant and have no interest in watching any of them play so that eliminates some games.

I've turned back to college ball which is way more interesting than the NBA these days. Also found my way back to hockey where the players make fun of the NBA anytime someone suggests they start load managing.  Love watching Connor McDavid play.

Agree other than the hockey stuff.  F the NHL.  I don't think players should load manage but there's a reason why NHL players can routinely play into their 40's and it's not because they're 'tougher'.  It's because, despite what the eggsperts say, that game is easier on one's body than either the nba or NFL (which I equally hate but that's another discussion).

On the nba, I'd hoped the next tv deal would punish them for load managing and alienating fans.  But it's sounding like that won't be the case.  It's up to us fans but us fans can't even agree on basic things like the NHL being boring and overly proud of itself. 

[Gray Mule]

Once upon a time, long ago, in the land of the NBA, trere was some pride shown in the all star game.

All of this has been thrown out the window.  There was once competition between the east and the west, each of which had their own all star team.  Us vs Them!  It meant something when your side won.  You had bragging rights.  Our division must be better.  We won!

Now, two chosen ones take turns, selecting their team.  I know how bad it feels to be the last one standing, not being chosen by either side.  I've been there, done that.  Over and over.  When he was voted in, if I'm not mistaken, he was the last player taken.  Trae knows how it feels.  No wonder he doesn't want to go.

Competition?  What competition?  Which team is yours?  Who knows?  I don't have a dog in this fight!  Where is the pride?  I don't really know who won the game.  I don't care.  Doesn't matter.

Whoever came up with this idea, taking away all the competition and pride from the game should be taken out behind the barn and have his donkey whipped.  

Edited February 21, 2023 by Gray Mule

[shakes]

13 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Agree other than the hockey stuff.  F the NHL.  I don't think players should load manage but there's a reason why NHL players can routinely play into their 40's and it's not because they're 'tougher'.  It's because, despite what the eggsperts say, that game is easier on one's body than either the nba or NFL (which I equally hate but that's another discussion).

On the nba, I'd hoped the next tv deal would punish them for load managing and alienating fans.  But it's sounding like that won't be the case.  It's up to us fans but us fans can't even agree on basic things like the NHL being boring and overly proud of itself. 

you don't have to convince me about basketball being worse on the body than hockey.  When i was forced to retire from hockey at age 30 I went right back into men's league hockey because it's 1000x better on the back.

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, shakes said:

you don't have to convince me about basketball being worse on the body than hockey.  When i was forced to retire from hockey at age 30 I went right back into men's league hockey because it's 1000x better on the back.

So why does this false narrative about hockey persist?  I mean, i know why.  It's the same reason folks see guys like TJ McConnell and assume he's the only one in the nba that works hard on their game.  I just don't understand why people just go along with it.