Hawks in talks with Snyder

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I think the issue came to a head when Tony wanted to sign Dwight Howard to have that "name" on the team, and Bud wanted to retain Al Horford.  Wilcox sided with Tony on that.

That's not how I remember that at all. But maybe your recall is better than mine.

 

[KB21]

From an article by Jeff Shulz in The Athletic from 2018:

Quote

“It was a recipe for disaster,” he said. “Total dysfunction.”

Budenholzer and Wilcox constantly disagreed on direction and personnel decisions. They signed Dwight Howard. They let Al Horford walk. Budenholzer was determined to try to win today but was totally lost as a big picture guy. Wilcox had player personnel skills but lacked the temperament to lead people. The Hawks went from reaching the Eastern Conference Finals to exiting the playoffs in the second round a year later, then the first round a year after that.

 

[sturt]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

From an article by Jeff Shulz in The Athletic from 2018:

 

Help me out.

1. Who is the quote attributed to?

2. And is the rest is apparently Jeff Schultz' perspective, but he's basing that on... did he say what he was basing that on? He wasn't the beat writer. Who was telling Schultz these things according to Schultz?

[KB21]

He's quoting Tony in the article, so I'm going to say that he got most of the information from Tony.  

Tony even says that he was the shmuck and the guy who didn't know anything in the front office during that year.  

[macdaddy]

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Tony even says that he was the shmuck and the guy who didn't know anything in the front office during that year.  

The more things change......

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He's quoting Tony in the article, so I'm going to say that he got most of the information from Tony.  

Tony even says that he was the shmuck and the guy who didn't know anything in the front office during that year.  

Thanks.

So, I think that just reaffirms my skepticism that it was about Bud and Wes... when, reality was, it was about Bud and Wes and Tony. Tony doesn't know to say any of those things without a premise of that being that he was enmeshed.

Look, it's the nature of the business and more broadly, nature of good decision-making for there to be disagreement. There actually is something good or even better that comes from people having reached different conclusions, ie, when those two are able to process their disagreement maturely. So, in my book, that's not evidence of dysfunction. Not at all. Some of the most dysfunctional relationships you can observe is when you have two people charged with a responsibility, and one is just a "yes man".

I'd love to hear Bud and/or Wes reflect on it... or even better, anyone in that office who was not Bud or Wes or Tony.

[kg01]

A question, to which I have flimsy answers.

Why are we, seemingly, bidding against ourselves here?  This dude is an upgrade but let's not pretend this is Phil Popovich walkin' in with rangs or something. 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

A question, to which I have flimsy answers.

Why are we, seemingly, bidding against ourselves here?  This dude is an upgrade but let's not pretend this is Phil Popovich walkin' in with rangs or something. 

I don't understand the question. Do you know something we don't? Is someone reporting there's a compensation hang up?

[theheroatl]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

A question, to which I have flimsy answers.

Why are we, seemingly, bidding against ourselves here?  This dude is an upgrade but let's not pretend this is Phil Popovich walkin' in with rangs or something. 

Huh?

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, sturt said:

I don't understand the question. Do you know something we don't? Is someone reporting there's a compensation hang up?

 

5 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Huh?

It's not confusing.  If we're "in talks", why not wait?  We're the only opening so we're effectively bidding against ourselves for his services.

The rest of this year is trashed at this point.  We're in need of substantive changes that can really only happen via offseason training.

So what's the hurry?  There's no need for urgency. 

[theheroatl]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

It's not confusing.  If we're "in talks", why not wait?  We're the only opening so we're effectively bidding against ourselves for his services.

The rest of this year is trashed at this point.  We're in need of substantive changes that can really only happen via offseason training.

So what's the hurry?  There's no need for urgency. 

It's not about bidding against ourselves. It's about an interview process. Unless your name is Tony, Landry, or Kyle I doubt you have any substantive evidence we are bidding against anyone or the process is getting bid against.

 

Quin is the best coach for the job, it's a matter of process. Especially if he is out of the country and needs to return to meet in person. He may have already verbally agreed, it's a matter of signing.

 

Utah was top-10 in team defense his last 6 years coaching there. Many argue every day that Capela is better than Gobert.... then why are we bottom 15 in defense last two years.

Edited February 23, 2023 by theheroatl

[kg01]

1 minute ago, theheroatl said:

It's not about bidding against ourselves. It's about an interview process. Unless your name is Tony, Landry, or Kyle I doubt you have any substantive evidence we are bidding against anyone or the process is getting bid against.

 

Quin is the best coach for the job, it's a matter of process. Especially if he is out of the country and needs to return to meet in person. He may have already verbally agreed, it's a matter of signing.

The reports aren't that they're 'looking to interview' him.  The reports suggest a hire is imminent.  This isn't the start of a process, it's the end.

So, I'll ask again, why are we moving so fast?  It's unnecessary.

And, if we don't have an actual interview process, we don't know if he's the right guy for the job or not. 

[REHawksFan]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

It's not confusing.  If we're "in talks", why not wait?  We're the only opening so we're effectively bidding against ourselves for his services.

The rest of this year is trashed at this point.  We're in need of substantive changes that can really only happen via offseason training.

So what's the hurry?  There's no need for urgency. 

Yeah I don't follow the "bidding" angle.  There's nothing that says we are moving the compensation or Snyder is holding out.  These things just take time to get all the particulars agreed upon.  

As to why do it now?  That seems pretty easy to me.  You do it now so that Snyder has a chance to coach the team, see how they take to his coaching, and then be better informed to help make offseason moves this summer.  Seems like a no brainer to me.  

Now, you don't force something just because he's available, but if he was and is your first choice and is willing to start immediately, why wait?  

Edited February 23, 2023 by REHawksFan

[warcore]

27 minutes ago, kg01 said:

So what's the hurry? 

Playoffs right around the corner.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Trae and Donovan Mitchell are friends i think.  Hopefully Trae knows what he's getting into.  I'm iffy on Snyder but i think it's an improvement. 

Mitchell now plays for a team ahead of us in the standings..

Even if he hated Quin, he'll probably tell Trae he's the greatest.. lol

[kg01]

28 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Yeah I don't follow the "bidding" angle.  There's nothing that says we are moving the compensation or Snyder is holding out.  These things just take time to get all the particulars agreed upon.  

As to why do it now?  That seems pretty easy to me.  You do it now so that Snyder has a chance to coach the team, see how they take to his coaching, and then be better informed to help make offseason moves this summer.  Seems like a no brainer to me.  

Now, you don't force something just because he's available, but if he was and is your first choice and is willing to start immediately, why wait?  

Yall clearly are reading something I'm not saying.

There are no other openings.  There is no need to hire anyone right now.  A push to hire him now gives Snyder 100% leverage.

You never make a hire under those circumstances.  We're bending ourselves over a barrel.  I'm not crazy here.

And there's several reasons not to make a hire mid-season.  There's a reason it's so rare.  If they need him to come in now to determine who to get rid of then we're in for worse shape, from a FO standpoint, than I can imagine. 

[terrell]

Whoever we hire 

He/She will be an upgrade right off the bat simply by benching Bogi(when we need a stop), and letting someone other than Trae inbound the ball in critical end-of-game situations  

And I hope the video department already has a vid cut just of Jalen absolutely terrorizing folks on fast breaks. lol

No more DNP-CD please... smh

Edited February 23, 2023 by terrell

[Gray Mule]

When you are the only one hiring no one else is working against you, trying to hire the same coach.  Now is the time.  No competition.  Get 'er done!

Joe Prunty is our coach right now.  If we are hiring Snyder, it will be a while before he can handle the job.  Meanwhile we follow the leadership of Joe.  I'm fine with this.  We need a few games of his coaching before we jump into any new coach.  Time for the dust to settle after the firing.

I'm curious.  How will the Hawks react, not having Nate?  Who will play?  How many minutes?  If we get a lead, can we hold on to it now?  We couldn't when Nate was here.

It's not a done deal.  Snyder may say, "No thanks."  Someone said thast he is still under contract.  If so, this must be taken care of.  Hurry up and wait!  Meanwhile, NBA basketball moves on and the Hawks do also!

[Afro]

46 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The reports aren't that they're 'looking to interview' him.  The reports suggest a hire is imminent.  This isn't the start of a process, it's the end.

So, I'll ask again, why are we moving so fast?  It's unnecessary.

And, if we don't have an actual interview process, we don't know if he's the right guy for the job or not. 

Is there really a need to interview when your assistant GM is verryyyy familiar with every guys ability to coach? Minus Ime 

[REHawksFan]

14 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Yall clearly are reading something I'm not saying.

There are no other openings.  There is no need to hire anyone right now.  A push to hire him now gives Snyder 100% leverage.

You never make a hire under those circumstances.  We're bending ourselves over a barrel.  I'm not crazy here.

And there's several reasons not to make a hire mid-season.  There's a reason it's so rare.  If they need him to come in now to determine who to get rid of then we're in for worse shape, from a FO standpoint, than I can imagine. 

Yeah....we're definitely not tracking the same here. 

I look at it like this... If the Hawks know they want to hire Snyder (who is unanimously considered the top choice on the market) and if Snyder has interest in the Hawks, why wait?  What's the upside to waiting?  All waiting does is allow other teams to fire their coaches at the end of the season get into an actual bidding war for him.  The Hawks are the only team that can hire him now and he has interest in us.  So I say do it now rather than wait.  I don't see the downside in doing it now. 

As for the other benefit I mentioned, it's not like the FO needs Snyder to tell them what to do (or maybe they do, I don't know).  But it's never a bad thing to get 23+ games of coaching with the core of the team prior to the "official" 1st season on the job.  Any input he gives would be a bonus. 

I guess where we are missing each other is I don't see these negotiations as being all that complicated.  Yes they take time (since QS is reportedly not even in the country currently), but it's not like QS is going to start making demands that the Hawks won't concede to in the offseason.