Discussion about Hunter and Trae (split off from insider thread)

[kg01]

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

You and I agree an awful lot but then you go and say something like this.

 

I have friends all over from different NBA cities. To a man they all say they with they had Trae Young.  I have a friend from New York who says he absolutely hates Trae Young and at the same time hates that he isn't a Knick.  Trae is a must see villain to a lot of NBA fans.  Many of them admit that if he played in LA or Boston, he'd shoot 10 more free throws a game and lead the league in every offensive category. 

 

If he were traded tomorrow, I'd still be a fan of the Hawks, but I'd be afraid every time he came to State Farm he'd hang 40/15 on us. Trae is like that little princess from Wreck it Ralph.  Every time you think you've got him beat, he glitches and blinks through the wall.  People hate him because they don't understand how he does what he does to their team.

Trae's current pace in points and assists slates him to be top 10 all time in both categories. If (and its a big if with point guards), he plays to 35, Trae could reasonably finish top 2 in assists all time and finish top 10 in points.  That's a superstar my friend.

The man has played 5 NBA seasons, 70.6 games per year. He's totaled 8990 points and 3285 assists. Top 10 in points is 27,490, Moses Malone.  That's possible.  Top 10 in assists is Isaiah Thomas at 9061.  One referee's ankle kept him from the finals in his 3rd season. Rules changes were made specifically because he was looking like a video game exploit. When the league changes their offenses rules in response to you, you're a superstar. Its that simple.

"Bbbbut I jus' don't like his face... and he won't pass to Hunter or sign autographs." - Trae-haters

(Sorry, couldn't resist.) 

[kg01]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Per @Peoriabird, for Trae to be considered elite offensively, his numbers have to be better than the MVP of the league.  A player many now consider the best in the world.

Is he even reading what he's writing? 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, kg01 said:

Per @Peoriabird, for Trae to be considered elite offensively, his numbers have to be better than the MVP of the league.  A player many now consider the best in the world.

Is he even reading what he's writing? 

Why do you guys continue to pretend to not be able to read???  For him to be considered a "superstar" like Jokic he will have to do more on offense since Jokic does  what he does on offense plus what he does on defense especially rebounding.  Young is a -2 on defense...Jokic is a +4 so Young has 6 to make on offense...Why is this so D-mn hard for y'all???

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Why do you guys continue to pretend to not be able to read???  For him to be considered a "superstar" like Jokic he will have to do more on offense since Jokic does  what he does on offense plus what he does on defense especially rebounding.  Young is a -2 on defense...Jokic is a +4 so Young has 6 to make on offense...Why is this so D-mn hard for y'all???

If you don't see that Trae is a superstar, you need to reevaluate what the word means for you.  Period. 

[JustSomeGuy]

@Peoriabird your statement assumes he’s only a superstar if he is an MVP caliber player. Which might be your criteria, but to most others is generally a false assumption. 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

@Peoriabird your statement assumes he’s only a superstar if he is an MVP caliber player. Which might be your criteria, but to most others is generally a false assumption. 

Can I use prime Lebron?  What about prime steph or are those bars too high too?  Maybe Dame Lillard?  Is Dame low enough?

[warcore]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Why is this so D-mn hard for y'all???

because you're the only one playing this game

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Per @Peoriabird, for Trae to be considered elite offensively, his numbers have to be better than the MVP of the league.  A player many now consider the best in the world.

Is he even reading what he's writing? 

I love how Trae is all of a sudden measured against the champion .  In a way it’s like they know themselves that he’s a top 10 talent in the league so every “best player/flavor of the year” whether it’s Giannis or the Joker . It certainly means Trae is doing something right.

Thanks Trae haters! Keep going. He likes it, we like it, you motivate! #traebestpgsinceMAGICJOHNSON

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Maybe Dame Lillard?  Is Dame low enough?

[Final_quest]

Trae is not on Jokic level that’s why we should build around Hunter.  Makes sense.  

[Peoriabird]

44 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Trae is not on Jokic level that’s why we should build around Hunter.  Makes sense.  

You make all the stupid statement you want.  My statement still stands...In order for this team to be better, Trae must perform better along with the rest of the squad particularly Murray, Capela and Hunter

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

..In order for this team to be better, Trae mush formperrform better along with the rest of the squad particularly Murray, Capela and Hunter

 it's a TOTAL TEAM effort.

[JustSomeGuy]

@Peoriabird again, nobody would disagree with that statement. Trae being better only makes the team better. But you know what also makes the team better? Trae being as good as he is and everyone else getting better. 

Your statement being debated though was that Trae wasn’t a superstar which is what is generating debate. 

And to respond to your statement, Steph and Lebron are arguably two of the 10 players of all time and easily the two best and most impactful players of the last 15 years. If that’s your litmus test then A LOT of players fall short. Including Dame who might be widely considered a better player and more efficient but has won less (arguably making him less impactful than Trae). Nobody was talking about Jokic as anything than a regular season stat stuffer until this past spring. 

Sounds like your superstar meter is just broken 

Edited July 2, 2023 by JustSomeGuy

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 it's a TOTAL TEAM effort.

When I look at that defense under Nate especially, nobody was playing defense in reality.  That has to change.  Clint was a terrible paint defender and Okungwu was getting pushed around.  There was no communication at all and it looked a total mess.  Atlanta is a very talented offensive team no doubt but they have to solve their defensive issues.  On Offense, everybody will just have shoot a little bit better.  Hunter/Murray/Trae have to shoot close to 38% from 3 while Bey/Bogie/Griffin 40% or better.  Capela has to regain his rebounding chops to remain the starter!

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JustSomeGuy said:

@Peoriabird again, nobody would disagree with that statement. Trae being better only makes the team better. But you know what also makes the team better? Trae being as good as he is and everyone else getting better. 

Your statement being debated though was that Trae wasn’t a superstar which is what is generating debate. 

And to respond to your statement, Steph and Lebron are arguably two of the 10 players of all time and easily the two best and most impactful players of the last 15 years. If that’s your litmus test then A LOT of players fall short. Dame might be widely considered a better player and more efficient but has won less (arguably making him less impactful than Trae). 

Sounds like your superstar meter is just broken 

The guy shoots 43% from the field and 33% from 3 during the regular season and much worse in the playoffs but anyway lets move on.  

[AHF]

6 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I guess its fruitless to restate what has already been stated that Trae offensive metrics are not elite or comparable to true superstars like Jokic because it will fall on def ears.  The argument that @NBASupes and I are making is that in order to be equal to Jokic, Trae's offensive metrics would have to be far better because Jokic has an impact defensively especially as a rebounder.  Trae offensive metrics alone are no where near prime curry so the argument should stop there.  But it won't.  Posters will quote raw stats and taught them as proof of Trae's greatness. @AHF knows exactly what I'm talking about but he is a clever lawyer who wants to stay in good standing with the blind Trae fans.  If Trae played like he did 2 years ago, the Hawks would have easily been a 50 plus win team and may have been more relevant in the playoff because aside from John Collins on offense and Clint on defense, everyone else on the team played better.    Paul George is not going to make Trae better and would probably only make the team marginally better if Trae plays like he did last year.  The focus should be on Trae becoming this players that we all think he can become.  I really hope that @NBASupes is right about Murray in regards to his defense.  If he is, then this will be a pretty good team for years to come.

You are funny.  I have no problem saying that Trae’s shooting fell off a cliff last year and it badly hurt us.  Really badly.  I think your scenario of last year’s team winning another 5-10 games if his shooting was closer to his 2021-22 scoring efficiency.  He wasn’t garbage last year or anything but it was a big step down for him and it cost us games we would have won in a better year for him for sure.  
 

Perhaps Quin’s biggest schematic challenge / opportunity is working to make sure we are doing something different next year to get better results out of the team (with Trae at the front of that line).  Last year’s “your turn, my turn system” (imagine a lot of contempt rolled into the word system there) absolutely does not cut it and will never lead us where we want to go.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

When I look at that defense under Nate especially, nobody was playing defense in reality. 

Nate's gone. It's now Quin's time to install his offense and defense and get the players needed to run it.

[JustSomeGuy]

Did anyone say he didn’t need to be more efficient? @Peoriabird

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, JustSomeGuy said:

Did anyone say he didn’t need to be more efficient? @Peoriabird

To be a superstar yes.  He is anointed superstar status even without the efficiency which is the one metric that separates the superstar from the none superstar

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

To be a superstar yes.  He is anointed superstar status even without the efficiency which is the one metric that separates the superstar from the none superstar

This is not true.  You've just identified an area where he needs to improve and have decided to fixate on that because you think it makes your argument.