John Collins Traded - Fare thee well!

[AHF]

58 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ughhhhh this hurts to look at..

I swear I thought: Trae/Huerter/Cam/Hunter/JC/OO for years.

 

.   

Trae and OO prolly last ones standing before too long.  

Some of those players weren’t real parts of that ECF run anyway.  
 

Hill, Snell, Mays, Knight, Hunter, Dunn, and Reddish had very easily replaceable “contributions” to that run to the point where I don’t think anyone should point to their departures as big changes.  Hunter is in a different category since he was injured (although he didn’t do enough to go in the contributor category for me - he is with Cam who was more impactful in his limited minutes).  The only ones who were real contributors to that run who are gone are Gallo, JC, Huerter and Lou (with Lou on the cusp of being in the easily replaceable contribution list but squeaking into the contributor category for me since he had a handful of legit big moments for us).

[KB21]

I’ll say this before I go to bed.  If Collins had been coached by Mike Budenholzer instead of Lloyd Pierce and Nate McMillan, he’s a more productive player and isn’t getting traded for an empty Coke can.  

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, GameTime said:

Never thought a JC trade would get me this upset since I saw it coming, but this one has.

Think about the Nique trade and realize - ALL WILL BE WELL!  Namaste! 

[Phunkabilly]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I’ll say this before I go to bed.  If Collins had been coached by Mike Budenholzer instead of Lloyd Pierce and Nate McMillan, he’s a more productive player and isn’t getting traded for an empty Coke can.  

He was thriving under Lloyd.  You can make the argument that Nate had something to do with his decline, but I think the finger injury and Capela's presence squeezing him out of the PnR game probably had more to do with it.

[Peoriabird]

8 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Oh, I'm DEFINITELY not a casual. But I'm trying to see any kind of vision or expectations in your post. I'd like you to explain what alternative you would like to see besides a DJM and Trae backcourt. I'm assuming you dislike one or the other or both and want to trade for what??..... I'm ready to understand.

There are so many problems with Murray's game which should be obvious to everyone who watches him play!  1st of all he is a terrible 1 on 1 defender who can't stay in front of the most average guard and he dies on every screen.  Those steal he use to get in San Antonio were fools gold.  Bogie is a better team defender than this guy.  And on offense, he doesn't get point guard assist.  Hell, he can't even throw lob pass let alone drive the lane with vision and make a wrap around pass to an open big.  He also is one of the most tunnel vision offense player's I've ever seen...Trae Young dribbles the ball a lot at time but Murray put him to shame when it comes to dribbling.  Murray has 1 reliable move which is get to the midrage and shoot the fall away.  The 3 point shot will not get any better than what it is now.  That rebouding is a thing of the pass so giving a player like this $30 plus million dollars to watch him team up with Young to win half their games with the fan base blaming everyone including the coaching staff for the team shortcomings is a hard pass for me

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Phunkabilly said:

He was thriving under Lloyd.  You can make the argument that Nate had something to do with his decline, but I think the finger injury and Capela's presence squeezing him out of the PnR game probably had more to do with it.

Fully agree.  Capela’s arrival tracks with JC’s decline.  (And the finger injury took it to a new level last year.)

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

There are so many problems with Murray's game which should be obvious to everyone who watches him play!  1st of all he is a terrible 1 on 1 defender who can't stay in front of the most average guard and he dies on every screen.  Those steal he use to get in San Antonio were fools gold.  Bogie is a better team defender than this guy.  And on offense, he doesn't get point guard assist.  Hell, he can't even throw lob pass let alone drive the lane with vision and make a wrap around pass to an open big.  He also is one of the most tunnel vision offense player's I've ever seen...Trae Young dribbles the ball a lot at time but Murray put him to shame when it comes to dribbling.  Murray has 1 reliable move which is get to the midrage and shoot the fall away.  The 3 point shot will not get any better than what it is now.  That rebouding is a thing of the pass so giving a player like this $30 plus million dollars to watch him team up with Young to win half their games with the fan base blaming everyone including the coaching staff for the team shortcomings is a hard pass for me

Agree that DM did not work in Nate’s “my turn, your turn” system.  I want to see him under Quin when Quin has his own staff and some time to make more fundamental adjustments before throwing in the towel on him but it was a sobering year on both sides of the ball.  I think he can look better than he did last year but can he be worth the contract he wants?  That is the important question to me.

[bleachkit]

19 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I’ll say this before I go to bed.  If Collins had been coached by Mike Budenholzer instead of Lloyd Pierce and Nate McMillan, he’s a more productive player and isn’t getting traded for an empty Coke can.  

He was highly productive, coaching notwithstanding. 

Among players active in each of the past six seasons, Collins is one of just five to average 15 points on 55%-plus shooting, according to ESPN Stats & Information data. The other four are Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jonas Valanciunas and Domantas Sabonis.

[Atlantaholic]

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

We are better off with Bey getting the minutes at power forward than using anything of value on Rui or Kuzma.  At least Bey can shoot at an above average clip.  

I would be OK with Rui at MLE. I wouldn't want Kuzma if he played for free. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Agree that DM did not work in Nate’s “my turn, your turn” system.  I want to see him under Quin when Quin has his own staff and some time to make more fundamental adjustments before throwing in the towel on him but it was a sobering year on both sides of the ball.  I think he can look better than he did last year but can he be worth the contract he wants?  That is the important question to me.

You saw him in the playoffs!   It was pathetic!  This dude made ISO cringe!  And 1/4 of the time after all that dribbling, he would just loose the ball.  He has no vision which is the problem!

[Atlantaholic]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Eh we said the same thing after the Huerter trade and it really bit us in the ass for a large part of last season. 

[Atlantaholic]

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If Siakam is traded he isn't eligible for the 35% supermax, he can only get it from Toronto. That's why he doesn't want to be traded, to remain eligible to get it.

Furthermore reports are Toronto has zero interest in trading Siakam. 

[Atlantaholic]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agree that DM did not work in Nate’s “my turn, your turn” system.  I want to see him under Quin when Quin has his own staff and some time to make more fundamental adjustments before throwing in the towel on him but it was a sobering year on both sides of the ball.  I think he can look better than he did last year but can he be worth the contract he wants?  That is the important question to me.

The big issue for DJM wasn't on offense. He was sooooo bad defensively on the ball m

[RedDawg#8]

39 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I’ll say this before I go to bed.  If Collins had been coached by Mike Budenholzer instead of Lloyd Pierce and Nate McMillan, he’s a more productive player and isn’t getting traded for an empty Coke can.  

Idk, I remember Bud giving him the Nate treatment as a rookie even though we were clearly tanking and not trying to win. All because he wasn’t shooting 3’s yet. Then the next 2 seasons under Lloyd he flourishes and has his best 2 years as a pro.

[Atlantaholic]

Hawks fans before the draft : We getting Siakam, we getting the 10th pick.

A week later: Maybe we can sign Joe Ingles with the Collins MLE. 

 

 

[Sothron]

56 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

If that is true Schlenk deserved to be fired.  Was that trade offer legit?

Yes. One source said Lauri and one FRP, another said Lauri and two FRP. This was BEFORE last season when the general feeling was Lauri was a bad contract and needed sweeteners to take it off the Jazz hands.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Hawks fans before the draft : We getting Siakam, we getting the 10th pick.

A week later: Maybe we can sign Joe Ingles with the Collins MLE. 

 

 

Joe Ingles?  Are you insane?  We'll be lucky to sign Joe Mama. 

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Joe Ingles?  Are you insane?  We'll be lucky to sign Joe Mama. 

There he isssss .. all week babbbyyyy 

[kg01]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

There he isssss .. all week babbbyyyy 

Heh, and to be clear, I wasn't taking a shot at your moms @Atlantaholic.  I meant it figuratively.   Although im sure shes got a wicked jumpshot. 

[Packfill]

33 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agree that DM did not work in Nate’s “my turn, your turn” system.  I want to see him under Quin when Quin has his own staff and some time to make more fundamental adjustments before throwing in the towel on him but it was a sobering year on both sides of the ball.  I think he can look better than he did last year but can he be worth the contract he wants?  That is the important question to me.

The answer to that question, however, is muddied by the draft capital the team gave up to acquire him.  I guess doubling down on a bad investment would be worse than cutting ties and taking the hit though.

After the Collins deal can the Hawks even resign Bay and OO (forget about Murray for the moment) and stay under the tax?  Those two are going to get a combined $40m+ a year I think.