Official Game Thread: Cavaliers at Hawks

[Jdawgflow]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

Do you (the royal collective “you” not just you NCR) think Bruno has proven himself enough to Quin to be a capable, reliable second string center?

Has he shown enough to the coaches/FO to give them the confidence to trade CC and roll with OO, Bruno, and a rookie 5? Or Trade CC & OO and get an upgrade to our starting 5? 

I think so, at least at his contract price point. I just wonder if Quin will be willing to roll with it. 

Bruno is a great 3rd center and possibly a decent backup.  It is worth rolling the nice with him as the backup if we can trade CC (among others) for a front court upgrade.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Jdawgflow said:

Bruno is a great 3rd center and possibly a decent backup.  It is worth rolling the nice with him as the backup if we can trade CC (among others) for a front court upgrade.

I like the original premise of trading OO and CC for an upgrade at the C position and signing Bruno on as the BU and also Picking up a project 5 in the draft. 

 

[bird_dirt]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I've been calling for this scenario since Christmas.

Ideally, the frontline rotation would look like this:

PF - JJ ( 32 ) - OO ( 10 ) - Bey ( 6 )

C - Capela ( 20 ) - OO ( 16 ) - Bruno ( 12 )

That would be good for what’s left of the rest of the season when they’re all available. 

For next season, however, I kind of hope we trade Cap and let Bey walk. Cap is done, and Bey is good at his current contract, but not for whatever raise he’ll get. 

I hope our frontline looks something along these scenarios:

PF : JJ ( 32 ) - OO ( 10 ) - Vet or Rookie ( 6 )

C : OO ( 22 ) - Bruno ( 16 ) - 7’ Vet or Rookie ( 10 )

—Or—

PF : JJ ( 32 ) - OO ( 10 ) - Vet or Rookie ( 6 )

C : + Upgrade ( 20 ) - OO ( 16 ) - Bruno ( 12 )

—Or—

PF : JJ ( 32 ) - Vet ( 16 ) - Vet or Rookie ( 6 )

C : ++ Upgrade ( 32 ) - Bruno ( 12 ) - Rookie ( 4 )

 

Edited March 8 by bird_dirt

[Spud2nique]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

trading OO

No. He got a haircut dude gonna go on a tear to end it! 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

No. He got a haircut dude gonna go on a tear to end it! 

He's still 6'8" and underskilled as a PF.  He'd do well playing next to Jokic or a very skilled Big. Maybe even Wimby.  But barring we get Sarr and move JJ to the 3..  OO is a tweener. 

 

[NBASupes]

15 hours ago, Jdawgflow said:

Bruno is a great 3rd center and possibly a decent backup.  It is worth rolling the nice with him as the backup if we can trade CC (among others) for a front court upgrade.

Bruno defense actually is rated 2nd overall on our team based on his defensive RAPTOR. Ahead of Clint and OO. Only JJ rated higher. That said, offensively, he's been getting his flight ready for a season next year in Barcelona with Garrison. -2.8 grade which rates 11th on the team and that's really bad because the others are playing extremely horrible on offense like Wes and Patty or just rookies.

All of our centers have been underwhelming on offense but Bruno is brutal.

Edited March 8 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

He's still 6'8" and underskilled as a PF.  He'd do well playing next to Jokic or a very skilled Big. Maybe even Wimby.  But barring we get Sarr and move JJ to the 3..  OO is a tweener. 

 

OO issue is perimeter defense, he would be a clear 4 in the modern game if he wasn't such a foul merchant defending the perimeter. 

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

He's still 6'8" and underskilled as a PF.  He'd do well playing next to Jokic or a very skilled Big. Maybe even Wimby.  But barring we get Sarr and move JJ to the 3..  OO is a tweener. 

 

Sarr ain't what you think he is. Sarr is like a polished  Gueye but he don't even have as good fundamentals. He got more upside at the 3 if we keeping a buck. People are sleeping on it but he's closer to Jaden McDaniels than any big I've seen. Sarr can move his feet exceptionally well. 

I like OO as a backup 5 but as a starter, his mental acuity just isn't high enough. You see a clear difference between him and Capela even with Clint being washed. 

The issue with OO at the 4 is the perimeter defense. 4s in today's NBA are asked to have defensive versatility. OO has in chunks but it's not fully complete. OO lack of growth kinda sucks. He was a way better pick than Wiseman but he's not a top 15 center either. We just bet on a center in the wrong draft class. 

[AHF]

15 hours ago, Nash said:

That "weak" Cavs team just a day before beat  #1 team in the entire nba

It's never easy to win in nba no matter who you play. We saw that in Brooklyn 

So you think the Cavs missing 3 starters are contenders because they are better than Boston?  Who gives a **** what they do on a given night.  That team is a lottery team.  Lottery talent can win against anyone on a given night.  
 

The Raptors were near the top of fthe lottery and beat the greatest team in NBA history over Jordan’s Bulls.  It happens.  Nothing is guaranteed in the NBA but if you are playing a stretch of lottery talent opponents that is not a useful measuring stick.  

don’t disagree about learning to win more consistently even against bad teams but we have been playing bad and broken teams and will do so again against the Grizzlies.  Looking at how our metrics compare in those games against full season metrics for other teams is both too small a sample and apples to oranges.  That has been my point.

When you play a weak sauce opponent you still need to do what is necessary to win and even really good teams can stop doing that and then lose when a team gots scorching hot from 3pt range.  We would have lost if the Cavs had been that hot too.  Isn’t like we shut down them getting good looks but that weak sauce broken team isn’t good enough to hit them consistently.  
 

My point is not that these wins aren’t good (ignoring draft position) but that they don’t give you a lot of information from which you can draw meaningful conclusions about improvements or degradation of team play when the competition is that lowly.

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Sarr ain't what you think he is. Sarr is like a polished  Gueye but he don't even have as good fundamentals. He got more upside at the 3 if we keeping a buck. People are sleeping on it but he's closer to Jaden McDaniels than any big I've seen. Sarr can move his feet exceptionally well. 

I like OO as a backup 5 but as a starter, his mental acuity just isn't high enough. You see a clear difference between him and Capela even with Clint being washed. 

The issue with OO at the 4 is the perimeter defense. 4s in today's NBA are asked to have defensive versatility. OO has in chunks but it's not fully complete. OO lack of growth kinda sucks. He was a way better pick than Wiseman but he's not a top 15 center either. We just bet on a center in the wrong draft class. 

For somebody that keeps talking about the modern game, Sarr should be your Muse and Edey should be your villain.   Sarr being 7'1" and having a handle and can shoot from outside and main strength being shot blocking is a dream for a young team.   He has to learn the defensive position game and he will be tutored on the PNR.. but he's a walking bag of potential greatness.  He's nothing like his brother. 

OO is undersized at the 5.  Here's the reality check coming for you and others Supes...

The Modern game is going to revert back to the classical game.   I told you guys a long time ago that the game of basketball evolves around the Center.   The NBA has picked up this "modern game" off the strength of Steph Curry and the want to make an environment more friendly for International players.  Well, that was with the absence of guys like Shaq and Morning and Ewing and Deke.  Well, it's time to look around again... 7 footers are returning.

Jokic, Embiid, Chet, Wimby, Sengun, Williams, Duren, Claxton, Mitchell, Gobert, AD, KAT, etc..  The days when you could just put a 6'8" guy out there and call him a small ball center are coming to a close.   These guys will eat a 6'8 center alive.  Not to mention you got Filipowski, Missi, Ware, your boy Edey and Clingan.  Some of the new guys will take 2 years to get adapted but there will be a resurgence of the 7 footer.   You have to have one. 

 

[Mikey]

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Sarr ain't what you think he is. Sarr is like a polished  Gueye but he don't even have as good fundamentals. He got more upside at the 3 if we keeping a buck. People are sleeping on it but he's closer to Jaden McDaniels than any big I've seen. Sarr can move his feet exceptionally well. 

I like OO as a backup 5 but as a starter, his mental acuity just isn't high enough. You see a clear difference between him and Capela even with Clint being washed. 

The issue with OO at the 4 is the perimeter defense. 4s in today's NBA are asked to have defensive versatility. OO has in chunks but it's not fully complete. OO lack of growth kinda sucks. He was a way better pick than Wiseman but he's not a top 15 center either. We just bet on a center in the wrong draft class. 

You are underselling what Onyeka did as a starter lol. The most recent stint when clint was out he showed off the entire toolset 

[AHF]

The game will never go back to centers the way it used to be due to zone defense, hand checking rules, and optimization around 3pt shooting but the idea of it swinging back a bit makes sense.  These things go back and forth some over time.

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

You are underselling what Onyeka did as a starter lol. The most recent stint when clint was out he showed off the entire toolset 

He looked great.  My only problem is that is what was something like 5 games.  That isn’t much of a sample.

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

For somebody that keeps talking about the modern game, Sarr should be your Muse and Edey should be your villain.   Sarr being 7'1" and having a handle and can shoot from outside and main strength being shot blocking is a dream for a young team.   He has to learn the defensive position game and he will be tutored on the PNR.. but he's a walking bag of potential greatness.  He's nothing like his brother. 

OO is undersized at the 5.  Here's the reality check coming for you and others Supes...

The Modern game is going to revert back to the classical game.   I told you guys a long time ago that the game of basketball evolves around the Center.   The NBA has picked up this "modern game" off the strength of Steph Curry and the want to make an environment more friendly for International players.  Well, that was with the absence of guys like Shaq and Morning and Ewing and Deke.  Well, it's time to look around again... 7 footers are returning.

Jokic, Embiid, Chet, Wimby, Sengun, Williams, Duren, Claxton, Mitchell, Gobert, AD, KAT, etc..  The days when you could just put a 6'8" guy out there and call him a small ball center are coming to a close.   These guys will eat a 6'8 center alive.  Not to mention you got Filipowski, Missi, Ware, your boy Edey and Clingan.  Some of the new guys will take 2 years to get adapted but there will be a resurgence of the 7 footer.   You have to have one. 

 

That first paragraph was terrible. Stop it. Its all wrong. Sarr isn't a 5. No post game, doesn't run big man actions well, and he doesn't provide much strength physically or even mentally. Even though JJJ is uncoordinated. At least at the 4, JJJ is 250+ and came in at 245. Sarr is 224 with a slender frame. He's not a big. He's more like a modern Johnathan Bender from an ability stance. Bender mental is what ruined him. Hopefully Sarr is good or better. Edey isn't a modern big in what the NBA currently wants but he's a true center. No one can deny that. Sarr not a big man. Could he be great, possibly but he's not a big man. 

 The game never left the bigs ever. They just weren't any good enough coming in till the mid 2010s. The game always favored the men closest to the basket with size. The spacing may make life harder on them defensively but offensively, the spacing helps them for sure especially with the athleticism currently in the league at each position. 

Flip ain't a 5 either. He's a 4 but he's a more promising 4 than many think he is. I really like Flip upside long term as a 4. He switches well and can block shots. Him being 7ft and 240 is a plus as well even with a weak wingspan. 

People moving from drop centers but look at all the good young ones in the NBA. We are going to be going back to drop centers in 2026 at the latest. Rule changes are coming which should help true centers as well. 

[Mikey]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

The game will never go back to centers the way it used to be due to zone defense, hand checking rules, and optimization around 3pt shooting but the idea of it swinging back a bit makes sense.  These things go back and forth some over time.

He looked great.  My only problem is that is what was something like 5 games.  That isn’t much of a sample.

Yeah his injury couldn't have happened at a worse time smh. Think they were really gonna come out of the break and continue to start him

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Yeah his injury couldn't have happened at a worse time smh. Think they were really gonna come out of the break and continue to start him

My issue was we was playing guys crazy minutes trying to get wins. We didn't let it come to us. We ended up losing OO to injury. 

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Yeah his injury couldn't have happened at a worse time smh. Think they were really gonna come out of the break and continue to start him

If they didn't keep starting him that would be a huge signal that Snyder doesn't believe in him.  I was really looking forward to seeing him start for the rest of the year and seeing how he did.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

If they didn't keep starting him that would be a huge signal that Snyder doesn't believe in him.  I was really looking forward to seeing him start for the rest of the year and seeing how he did.

Very unfortunate as we really needed to find out what he is/can be next to JJ.

OO will be evaluated between March 15-18, (after our long west coast trip). How long will he be out after that evaluation. We'll have 14 games left in our season.

An already tough season, plagued by more untimely injuries. 

[Mikey]

34 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My issue was we was playing guys crazy minutes trying to get wins. We didn't let it come to us. We ended up losing OO to injury. 

Yup been a problem all year tbh. Quin rides his guys a lot and when your rotation at the start of the season was mainly 8 guys I think it starts to pile up quick.

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Very unfortunate as we really needed to find out what he is/can be next to JJ.

OO will be evaluated between March 15-18, (after our long west coast trip). How long will he be out after that evaluation. We'll have 14 games left in our season.

An already tough season, plagued by more untimely injuries. 

JJ definitely felt more comfortable with OO than Clint. They came up together as part of the 2nd unit