2024 Hawks Offseason Thread: Lottery Bound

[KB21]

1 hour ago, BangHolman said:

He's one of the few assets we have that can provide quality return and he's not big enough to be a starting center.

There it is.  The perpetuated myth that you have to be 7-foot to be a center.  

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There it is.  The perpetuated myth that you have to be 7-foot to be a center.  

Bigger than 6'8'' and 235 lbs doesn't necessarily mean a 7 footer.  It could be what he means but he could also mean he'd be good with a a younger Clint Capela who is 2 inches taller than OO but not a 7-footer.  You might want to find out what bangholman means before assuming something.  There are lots of starting centers who are bigger than OO (in terms of height and/or weight) but shorter than 7 feet tall.  (Examples:  Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo, Nikola Jokic, Domantas Sabonis, etc.)

[Gray Mule]

Another center has popped up on the Hawk's radar.  Kel'el Ware seems to be an athletic, 7-foot prospect.  Atlanta needs a bigger center, whether he is a starter or a back-up to 0017.  Could we live with this pick?

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Bigger than 6'8'' and 235 lbs doesn't necessarily mean a 7 footer.  It could be what he means but he could also mean he'd be good with a a younger Clint Capela who is 2 inches taller than OO but not a 7-footer.  You might want to find out what bangholman means before assuming something.  There are lots of starting centers who are bigger than OO (in terms of height and/or weight) but shorter than 7 feet tall.  (Examples:  Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo, Nikola Jokic, Domantas Sabonis, etc.)

I don't need to find out.  I know.  I fought this myth back when Al Horford was constantly being criticized for being too small.  It's a f***ing myth.  Okongwu is almost exactly the same size as Bam Adebayo, who from my standpoint is the model for what a center should be in today's NBA.  

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don't need to find out.  I know.  I fought this myth back when Al Horford was constantly being criticized for being too small.  It's a f***ing myth.  Okongwu is almost exactly the same size as Bam Adebayo, who from my standpoint is the model for what a center should be in today's NBA.  

OO is shorter and lighter than Bam but I'm not going to argue it is a huge gap.  He is significantly shorter and lighter than Sabonis.  None of them are 7 footers.  You are potentially putting words in another poster's mouth.  We don't know what he means but if he thinks Sabonis is big enough you are strawmanning his position by claiming he wants nothing less than a 7 footer.

@BangHolman - You are invited to clarify whether (since you think that OO is too small) you think that only a 7 footer will be big enough for this team or what you mean if you mean something else.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I don't need to find out.  I know.  I fought this myth back when Al Horford was constantly being criticized for being too small.  It's a f***ing myth.  Okongwu is almost exactly the same size as Bam Adebayo, who from my standpoint is the model for what a center should be in today's NBA.  

Al Horford is elite in mental acuity, intangibles, and consistency. OO isn't. OO is a better athlete than Al and he's better at isolation defense and switching but Al is miles better at everything else. Prime Al that is. Even current Al has a clear gap on him for the obvious. 

OO can be a starter. I just don't believe that team is the Atlanta Hawks and I honestly don't believe he's a legit starter for most teams. His best role is a 6th man defensive specialist who can finish and he's very athletic and tough as a bull. I like OO better than someone like Robert Williams but Williams size does give him some benefits as a starter. 

Edited April 24 by NBASupes

[theheroatl]

The main issue is OO is not outstanding at any one particular thing.

I'd rather him have an identity if he is going to start.. will he have a great hook shot? Great 3 point shooter? Rebounder? Shot Blocker?

 

I can't tell what he is right now. 

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

The main issue is OO is not outstanding at any one particular thing.

I'd rather him have an identity if he is going to start.. will he have a great hook shot? Great 3 point shooter? Rebounder? Shot Blocker?

 

I can't tell what he is right now. 

I think he is great at 

Finishing 

Iso defense against bigs

Switching 

[Packfill]

I don't see how anyone could support having OO as the starter given his track record of getting hurt.  He is almost guaranteed to miss 20+ games a year.  The Hawks would absolutely need to have a guy behind him who is just as good, because otherwise you are setting the team up to be massively shorthanded during the prolonged periods OO is unavailable.

Just think about going forward with a frontline of OO, JJ and Hunter.  Realistically, how many games per season do you envision those three all being available?  40 games where all three are healthy at the same time?  Would you take the over or the under?

I would 100% support moving OO if the team could get a good return due to the fact that he has so far not been able to force the issue and take CC's job and the fact that he has a real availability problem.

[KB21]

Yeah.  Let’s go out and get us a 7-foot slug just because he’s big.  Let’s trade our athletic modern big because he’s not 7-foot tall.  

[NBASupes]

22 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  Let’s go out and get us a 7-foot slug just because he’s big.  Let’s trade our athletic modern big because he’s not 7-foot tall.  

There is a lot more to centers than athleticism 

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is a lot more to centers than athleticism 

If it were still 1985 maybe.  

[theheroatl]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  Let’s go out and get us a 7-foot slug just because he’s big.  Let’s trade our athletic modern big because he’s not 7-foot tall.  

lol. KB, how many of these centers would you choose to give starting minutes over OO:

There are so many better centers right now:

 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

lol. KB, how many of these centers would you choose to give starting minutes over OO:

There are so many better centers right now:

 

Only see 5 who are obvious.  I see several I wouldn’t play at all.  
 

 

[Jody23]

On 4/18/2024 at 12:43 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Who is going to be the Salary Dump this offseason? 

My guess is Clint.

[KB21]

 

[Hawkish]

48 minutes ago, KB21 said:

 

I was intrigued at “intensity”.  We could use some of that “losing isn’t an option” mentality.  

[BangHolman]

18 hours ago, KB21 said:

There it is.  The perpetuated myth that you have to be 7-foot to be a center.  

OO gets bullied like crazy when he plays the 5. He's a 4/5 tweener, and that's OK. Clint still defends Centers better. OO's best defense comes when he's guarding 4s. We won't win a championship with him as a Starter.

I don't want some big, clunky 7 footer either, but give me a Kel-el Ware type player. We should have traded Clint and 15 for 10 and drafted Derek Lively last year.

[BangHolman]

18 hours ago, KB21 said:

I don't need to find out.  I know.  I fought this myth back when Al Horford was constantly being criticized for being too small.  It's a f***ing myth.  Okongwu is almost exactly the same size as Bam Adebayo, who from my standpoint is the model for what a center should be in today's NBA.  

Al was a better center and player than OO is and ever will be.

[KB21]

52 minutes ago, BangHolman said:

Al was a better center and player than OO is and ever will be.

Whatever you want to think.  It isn't factual, but if you want to think it, go ahead.  Al was a better player in his prime, and there is no reason for OO to keep from getting to that level or close to it.  OO can be another Bam Adebayo.  But let's continue to label him like Al was labeled.