2024 Hawks Offseason Thread: Lottery Bound

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

As far as length and athleticism, they already got that with Johnson and MAYBE with a healthy Okongwu.  6' 8" is tall enough in today's NBA. 

One guy?

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If your answer to the Hawks woes is to pair Trae with Zach Edey, then you might as well just say f*** playing defense as a whole, get the best offensive players you can find at the other three spots, and try to win games 160-155 because a team will NEVER have a top 10 caliber defense with Trae Young at point and Zach Edey at center.  

It’s like playing 5 on 3.5 .. cuz Trae defense improved!  

[JayBirdHawk]

Who is going to be the Salary Dump this offseason? 

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That "offensive 5" has to also be either an elite rim protector or a switchable defender who can guard multiple positions.  We can't have a weak defender at both point guard and center going forward.

He's an elite paint protector and we need that as well. He has value as a rim protector and he can defend smaller players when set. 

Edey isn't a weak defender, he's just not a versatile defender. 

[Hawkmoor]

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That "offensive 5" has to also be either an elite rim protector or a switchable defender who can guard multiple positions.  We can't have a weak defender at both point guard and center going forward.

Edey is the most overrated player to come out of college in a long time.  The college game is tailor made for a guy his size who can dominate at that level.  The NBA is a different beast.  He HAS to be able to play in space at that level and can't.  Edey might be a career bench player in the NBA at most.  In fact, not only is he not a space player either offensively or defensively, I noticed that if you go straight AT him on offense, he freezes and you can shoot over him.  He is at best a weakside help defender who can block your shots when you ain't looking for him in the paint.  He also got the Lebron treatment  (can't touch him but he can run straight thru you without a call).

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

One guy?

Who else you gonna go get?

Edited April 18 by Hawkmoor

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

Edey is the most overrated player to come out of college in a long time.  The college game is tailor made for a guy his size who can dominate at that level.  The NBA is a different beast.  He HAS to be able to play in space at that level and can't.  Edey might be a career bench player in the NBA at most.  In fact, not only is he not a space player either offensively or defensively, I noticed that if you go straight AT him on offense, he freezes and you can shoot over him.  He is at best a weakside help defender who can block your shots when you ain't looking for him in the paint.  He also got the Lebron treatment  (can't touch him but he can run straight thru you without a call).

Agree.  Life in the NBA is going to be rough for him.  

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Edey is the most overrated player to come out of college in a long time.  The college game is tailor made for a guy his size who can dominate at that level.  The NBA is a different beast.  He HAS to be able to play in space at that level and can't.  Edey might be a career bench player in the NBA at most.  In fact, not only is he not a space player either offensively or defensively, I noticed that if you go straight AT him on offense, he freezes and you can shoot over him.  He is at best a weakside help defender who can block your shots when you ain't looking for him in the paint.  He also got the Lebron treatment  (can't touch him but he can run straight thru you without a call).

Who else you gonna go get?

This the route you want to go?

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Who else you gonna go get?

I don't have specifics but in terms of what we have on the roster:

Hunter has good size but lacks overall athleticism, no wiggle in his hips.  

All the other bench guys lack athleticism, speed, power.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Seriously, we don't need another thread going down the 'Edey Rabbit Hole'

[theheroatl]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

You can't ignore shooting with this.  Trae needs defenders who can shoot around him.  

Also, in no way, shape, or form is Drummond a starting big in today's NBA.  His game isn't diverse enough.  No perimeter offense.  No switchability on defense.  

Those were just examples. There are better ones I just didn’t research.

 

obviously Mikal bridges and batum are better 

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Who is going to be the Salary Dump this offseason? 

Capela 

[Final_quest]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Who is going to be the Salary Dump this offseason? 

Capela, Hunter, or Bogi.  But I think it could look differently than cutting Collins as a straight dump.  A trade for actual player in return.  

I do think our issue is more where we’ve spent on our top 6 guys vs an unwillingness to pay a seventh guy $10M+.

We have a bunch of young guys to work in the rotation as well.  

[Hawkmoor]

Another elephant in the room:  Quin Snyder put together one of the best coaching staffs that I can remember ever in the NBA, highlighted by Mark Brey, 13 NCAA tournament appearances,  three sweet 16 appearances,  two elite 8 appearances.   Igor Kokoskov, 23 years NBA experience, worked under Alvin Gentry as his lead assistant in Phoenix.  I mean they are stacked in the coaching department.  The result of that is a team with Trae and Murray running a ( Its your turn, no its my turn) offense and zero defense for most part of the season.  It can't be coaching.

 

 

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Another elephant in the room:  Quin Snyder put together one of the best coaching staffs that I can remember ever in the NBA, highlighted by Mark Brey, 13 NCAA tournament appearances,  three sweet 16 appearances,  two elite 8 appearances.   Igor Kokoskov, 23 years NBA experience, worked under Alvin Gentry as his lead assistant in Phoenix.  I mean they are stacked in the coaching department.  The result of that is a team with Trae and Murray running a ( Its your turn, no its my turn) offense and zero defense for most part of the season.  It can't be coaching.

 

 

This coaching staff is great.  Maybe not to the level of the 2013 staff yet, but it's one of the better staffs in the NBA.

[Hawkmoor]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This coaching staff is great.  Maybe not to the level of the 2013 staff yet, but it's one of the better staffs in the NBA.

Its not just the Hawks either.  I see too many NBA teams playing playground basketball on offense or offenses with players just standing there with no movement.  The players run the NBA.  Good coaches don't have the effect they used to have.  Very few teams have a culture where they don't let the players run the coaching staff:  Boston, Golden State, San Antonio, etc.( though you can make a solid case that even Golden State lets Green get away with too much).  Giannis is the latest example in Milwaukee.  They had a legit good head coach who had them playing defense but through all the hoopla it came down to him not wanting Giannis non playing, roster spot taking, brother on the team so Giannis had him fired. Of course Giannis denied it, lmao

Edited April 18 by Hawkmoor

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Its not just the Hawks either.  I see too many NBA teams playing playground basketball on offense or offenses with players just standing there with no movement.  The players run the NBA.  Good coaches don't have the effect they used to have.  Very few teams have a culture where they don't let the players run the coaching staff:  Boston, Golden State, San Antonio, etc.( though you can make a solid case that even Golden State lets Green get away with too much).  Giannis is the latest example in Milwaukee.  They had a legit good head coach who had them playing defense but through all the hoopla it came down to him not wanting Giannis non playing, roster spot taking, brother on the team so Giannis had him fired. Of course Giannis denied it, lmao

Spoelstra and his staff in Miami are great, IMO.  I think Houston is potentially building something with Ime and his staff as well.

[Hawkmoor]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Spoelstra and his staff in Miami are great, IMO.  I think Houston is potentially building something with Ime and his staff as well.

You are correct.  Miami has that culture where they play team basketball and lets the coaching staff do its job.  You are correct about Houston as well.  Indiana is another team that the head coach has a heavy influence on the team as a whole and they play hard for him (Rick Carlisle).

Edited April 18 by Hawkmoor

[Gray Mule]

Too many "pretty good" players on our roster and not enough "great" players.  Who was our last rookie of the year?  Who was our last defensive player of the year?  Who was our last 6th man of the year?  Who was our coach of the year with this Hawk team?

Who do the Hawks have that you believe should be a starter on the All-star team?  

Hawk's payroll is already at the top.  Trae's salary is huge for a sub 500 team. If, and this is a big if, Atlanta has a complete rebuild, Trae must go.  Too much $$$ tied up in one player who cannot lead us to the promise land.  He's good.  He's almost great.  The question becomes, can we really, really win it all with him as our top dog?   If so, who would we need to have, playing with him that would be cheap enough for us to afford? 

I hope none of us expects ownership to spend big $$$ bucks to have us end up in the lottery or ever so close to it.  Right now we are between - - "Show me the wins and I will pay"  and "Show me the $$$ and we will win!"  I remember an old saw from my youth:  "It takes money if you are going to drink whiskey and ride the train!" 

Changes must take place.  Count on it.  Whatever we do, someone will say, "I don't like it!"  It never fails.

 

[macdaddy]

Would you trade Jalen, Murray + others for Giannis?

 

I think we have to trade Murray.  OO and Hunter can go too if we can get value out of them.  

Find a young 7 footer who can catch lobs and shot block.  Hopefully Jalen and OO can provide some outside shooting from the frontcourt. 

Find a wing with real size and strength who can knock down 3s and defend.  

Simple!

[Hawkmoor]

44 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Spoelstra and his staff in Miami are great, IMO.  I think Houston is potentially building something with Ime and his staff as well.

One more thing that has to be said.  Players like DeAndre Hunter are fantastic defenders.  The problem is the NBA has gone out of its way to create more and more offense.  Offensive players can carry the ball, walk with the ball, set moving screens, create contact on offense and get the call, the elimination of hand checking.  The list goes on and on.  Thats one reason the players don't pay attention to coaching. The NBA overall is a joke.  There is no way a player like Hunter can play defense.  He can stick his hands straight up in the air on a drive and the offensive player still gets a call.

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

One more thing that has to be said.  Players like DeAndre Hunter are fantastic defenders.  The problem is the NBA has gone out of its way to create more and more offense.  Offensive players can carry the ball, walk with the ball, set moving screens, create contact on offense and get the call, the elimination of hand checking.  The list goes on and on.  Thats one reason the players don't pay attention to coaching. The NBA overall is a joke.  There is no way a player like Hunter can play defense.  He can stick his hands straight up in the air on a drive and the offensive player still gets a call.

and then it's so inconsistent.  Hunter never in a million years would have gotten away with this "defense" from whoever this dude is.  And not only that people act like it was some great play.  it's like 3 fouls to get the ball.