The Tank Thread

[KB21]

Just now, noble said:

I would argue no one has wanted to play for us anyway. What superstar has wanted to come to Atlanta?

Well then, we are screwed long term, because if no one wants to sign with Atlanta, how in the world will we be able to keep this guaranteed generational superstar that we are apparently going to take with a top 3 pick this year?

[NBASupes]

I am loving that we are picking up on the tank. 

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am loving that we are picking up on the tank. 

Of course you are.  You are deluded into thinking there are actually generational talents in this draft and next year's draft.

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, noble said:

I would argue no one has wanted to play for us anyway. What superstar has wanted to come to Atlanta?

How often does a superstar move?   Have you been watching the NBA?  Superstars only move to where other superstars are.  George and Anthony moved to be with Westbrook.   CP3 moved to be with Harden. 

So... with that in mind.  Maybe it's not about getting a superstar, maybe it's about using your stars to attract star players.

 

Like Hayward going to Boston .

Like Butler going to Minnesota.

Like Cousins going to New Orleans. 

 

However, in none of those cases, do you see tanking playing a major role.  The tankers are the teams that lose those players... like Utah, Chicago, and SacTown.

 

[noble]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

How often does a superstar move?   Have you been watching the NBA?  Superstars only move to where other superstars are.  George and Anthony moved to be with Westbrook.   CP3 moved to be with Harden. 

So... with that in mind.  Maybe it's not about getting a superstar, maybe it's about using your stars to attract star players.

 

Like Hayward going to Boston .

Like Butler going to Minnesota.

Like Cousins going to New Orleans. 

 

However, in none of those cases, do you see tanking playing a major role.  The tankers are the teams that lose those players... like Utah, Chicago, and SacTown.

 

Ah ha! So yes they don't move without other superstars. We haven't had one since Nique. This is the chicken or egg question. How do you get a superstar without a superstar? LeBron was drafted, Curry was drafted, so on and so on. All I wanted since Niwue left was another superstar so that we could have a shot at a ring. None came, none got drafted, we sat in hell since. So what of we try another way to get one? What were we doing before that was so special as to have a chance to get one? All I'm saying is we are where we are. It's done. Now let's hope this path gets us a superstar. Not like we had one before. 

[Royjr9]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

How often does a superstar move?   Have you been watching the NBA?  Superstars only move to where other superstars are.  George and Anthony moved to be with Westbrook.   CP3 moved to be with Harden. 

So... with that in mind.  Maybe it's not about getting a superstar, maybe it's about using your stars to attract star players.

 

Like Hayward going to Boston .

Like Butler going to Minnesota.

Like Cousins going to New Orleans. 

 

However, in none of those cases, do you see tanking playing a major role.  The tankers are the teams that lose those players... like Utah, Chicago, and SacTown.

 

For one you would have to have a star to attract something not over paid role players. 

[Lurker]

29 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Strawman...

Pair Dwight Howard with any team...and it'll always become excuses that don't point to him. Face it...he's trash. He's trash and has been trash since his back problems.

Doesn't matter the PG, doesn't matter the fit, doesn't matter if we've landed on the moon, Dwight Howard is trash.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

And you think the tank teams will??

They already won titles so...not sure what your point is.

[NBASupes]

39 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Of course you are.  You are deluded into thinking there are actually generational talents in this draft and next year's draft.

That would be a step up from you, which is constantly delusional. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 3/11/2018 at 4:58 PM, MaceCase said:

Cute.

Create a straw man for yourself to attack when you're in a far weaker position to defend it for yourself.

I'll play along though. 

The tax avoidant Nuggets, thanks to a lackluster season following signing Paul Millsap and giving Mason Plumlee and Gary Harris an extension when they traded away Donovan Mitchell, will have to realistically dump Jamal Murray along with one or two of their 37 other highly paid forwards in order to accommodate a new restricted free agent contract for Nikola Jokic.  It's either take on a ~$50 million tax bill lest they want to take the risk of letting Jokic become an unrestricted free agent in 2019. 

Guess what team would be in a position to take advantage of such a conundrum?

 

 

So, chief.  what's your realistic plan had the Hawks held onto last season's team?  Here, I'll make it easy for you:

http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

Frankly, I don't care.  I'm not interested in reading Lance Stephenson and Jordan Crawford being the difference for the Hawks.

 

If Sap could've been brought back for 3 yrs / 90 million, that's the offseason move you make.  He's the All-Star player and the team's best defender.  By the time his 3rd year is up, the hope would be for Collins to have learned enough from Millsap to elevate his game to All-Star status.

Play the Dwight scenario for at least this year, if not next year as well.  What was the use of even bringing him in, if you weren't going to commit to it for at least 2 years?

Add vet minimum contracts to the team.  ( Since you mentioned him, Jordan Crawford would be an instant upgrade over any reserve guard we have on the team right now, from a scoring and playmaking standpoint ).

Continue the development of Schröder to the point that he becomes the co-leader of the team beside Millsap.

Use the 3 draft picks to obtain shooters to compliment our core group.

 

The vets ( Howard and Millsap ) would allow the kids ( Dennis, Taurean, John, Kent ) to develop properly.  Instead, now you have everyone trying to do too much, which kills how efficiently they can develop.  That's the reason why young teams without quality vets do not win in this league.  And like Diesel said, by the time this team is good again, the only person that may be on the squad, is John Collins.  Taurean Prince, if he becomes a top 20 SF in the league, may also be re-signed.

Dennis will probably be flipped for a late 1st round draft pick to a contending team.  Baze will be allowed to expire.  

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That would be a step up from you, which is constantly delusional. 

Delusional would be thinking that Marvin Bagley and Zion Williamson are generational talents that will be the core pieces of a championship team.

[bleachkit]

One thing about the draft is it's extremely unpredictable who becomes a star, or bust for that matter. Go ahead and tell me you knew Donovan Mitchell was going to be great, and Markelle Fultz couldn't shoot a basketball to save his life. 

[davis171]

We have been over this Sap's contract makes 0 sense when trying to build. He was less than a 6th of the cap when he came here with Ferry. Ferry was really good at managing cap and deciding how much to spend on guys. Sap was only here in the first place because he signed a team friendly deal. 30 million is by no means team friendly (a third of your cap). When you can go out and sign guys like Hezonja, Exum, Barton, etc and see if they come here with a chip on their shoulder and take the team to unprecedented heights ala DMC and Sap. We don't have that potential with keeping the roster the same.

[jy23]

I am still utterly amazed at this thread. People hating what the hawks are doing now while giving no actual strategy to use instead...just complaining. We have guys who are apparently the greatest talent evaluators that the world has ever seen bc not only are they saying there will be no franchise talents in this draft...they’re already calling for there to be none in next years class. 

 

We’re talking about losing not being able to attract players to our franchise...what was the problem and or reason that we weren’t able to attract stars when we were on the 2nd longest playoff streak in he league? 

 

We’re arguing about guys not making impact immediately so we will still be bad for some years...ok. The point is to win a championship eventually, not make the playoffs next year. How long did it take lebron to win? How bout KD? Did Steph win in his second year? How bout Jordan? Shaq? Kobe? Dirk? These are the most pointless conversations and we’re just constantly going in circles bc two guys swear they have the answer on how to actually win a ring but haven’t given one viable example of how to do so. Jesus Christ 

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, jy23 said:

we’re just constantly going in circles bc two guys swear they have the answer on how to actually win a ring but haven’t given one viable example of how to do so. Jesus Christ 

Haven't you heard...The plan was to keep Howard while signing Millsap to $30 mil per year and it would have been a matter of time before any GM figured out the rest

[hazer]

30 minutes ago, jy23 said:

I am still utterly amazed at this thread. People hating what the hawks are doing now while giving no actual strategy to use instead...just complaining. We have guys who are apparently the greatest talent evaluators that the world has ever seen bc not only are they saying there will be no franchise talents in this draft...they’re already calling for there to be none in next years class. 

 

We’re talking about losing not being able to attract players to our franchise...what was the problem and or reason that we weren’t able to attract stars when we were on the 2nd longest playoff streak in he league? 

 

We’re arguing about guys not making impact immediately so we will still be bad for some years...ok. The point is to win a championship eventually, not make the playoffs next year. How long did it take lebron to win? How bout KD? Did Steph win in his second year? How bout Jordan? Shaq? Kobe? Dirk? These are the most pointless conversations and we’re just constantly going in circles bc two guys swear they have the answer on how to actually win a ring but haven’t given one viable example of how to do so. Jesus Christ 

I’m quoting this post just so I can like it twice. This post is Like #2.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

40 minutes ago, jy23 said:

I am still utterly amazed at this thread. People hating what the hawks are doing now while giving no actual strategy to use instead...just complaining. We have guys who are apparently the greatest talent evaluators that the world has ever seen bc not only are they saying there will be no franchise talents in this draft...they’re already calling for there to be none in next years class. 

 

We’re talking about losing not being able to attract players to our franchise...what was the problem and or reason that we weren’t able to attract stars when we were on the 2nd longest playoff streak in he league? 

 

We’re arguing about guys not making impact immediately so we will still be bad for some years...ok. The point is to win a championship eventually, not make the playoffs next year. How long did it take lebron to win? How bout KD? Did Steph win in his second year? How bout Jordan? Shaq? Kobe? Dirk? These are the most pointless conversations and we’re just constantly going in circles bc two guys swear they have the answer on how to actually win a ring but haven’t given one viable example of how to do so. Jesus Christ 

You keep saying "no strategy".  The strategy was to keep Millsap, if he were to settle for a 3 year contract.   3 years is enough time for him to mentor Collins, and maybe turn that kid into something special.  Tim Duncan doesn't become "the great one", without the mentorship of David Robinson.  Kids learn from vets.

On this team, who is Dennis learning from?  Prince?  Collins?

When you're trying to lose, you don't want to add even cheap vets who know how to play the game.  That's why Phoenix doesn't know how to win . . . and are going into their 8th consecutive year of not making the playoffs.  This, after making the playoffs 19 out of 22 years.

Phoenix royally messed up, and they haven't been able to recover from it.  What was one of the great NBA fan bases, has been reduced to rubble.

It's sad.

[jy23]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You keep saying "no strategy".  The strategy was to keep Millsap, if he were to settle for a 3 year contract.   3 years is enough time for him to mentor Collins, and maybe turn that kid into something special.  Tim Duncan doesn't become "the great one", without the mentorship of David Robinson.  Kids learn from vets.

On this team, who is Dennis learning from?  Prince?  Collins?

When you're trying to lose, you don't want to add even cheap vets who know how to play the game.  That's why Phoenix doesn't know how to win . . . and are going into their 8th consecutive year of not making the playoffs.  This, after making the playoffs 19 out of 22 years.

Phoenix royally messed up, and they haven't been able to recover from it.  What was one of the great NBA fan bases, has been reduced to rubble.

It's sad.

Who mentored lebron? KD? Steph? We really feel like this would’ve been the route to a quicker championship? You’re talking about an mvp player mentoring a number 1 pick who ended up bein the best ever at his position and most people saw greatness in him before he was ever with Robinson. If this is the best that can be done for an alternative to what we’re doin right now then I think we’re on the right path. Sap is a borderline all star and we’re talking about him mentoring the same way a top 50 all time player did. Come on man 

[AHF]

Duncan becomes a stud whether Robinson is there or not.  Come on.  We claiming all the greats got there because they had injured borderline All-Stars showing them how to put up a net neutral point differential (assuming for the sake of argument that we were better than last year despite Sap being out for most of the year).

[CBAreject]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

Duncan becomes a stud whether Robinson is there or not.  Come on.  We claiming all the greats got there because they had injured borderline All-Stars showing them how to put up a net neutral point differential (assuming for the sake of argument that we were better than last year despite Sap being out for most of the year).

This shows how absurd the premise is.  Dwight please show me how to sand bag and lose by 30 to a lottery team—I’m just a rook.