The Tank Thread

[deester11]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hey c'mon man, Two years ago the Hawks had a HOF player.........................................................

.....................................................Dwight Howard .

 

Seriously though, 2 years ago the Hawks best player was an over 30 year old Paul Millsap looking for a Monster payday, not even close to what Portland has in Lillard, they are in a tougher West while the Hawks can't get out the 1st round in a weak East. Portland still has a player to build their team around, Hawks had none...so not the same boat as the Hawks at all.

But....that makes sense.  That's not what's supposed to happen in this tank "argument."

[JayBirdHawk]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Since you want to jump in the convo, same question to you.  What should Portland do?   

Because they're literally in the same situation we were 2 years ago, with the exception that they have a Hall of Fame player on their roster.   Should they tear it down, get draft picks for Lillard, and start tanking for 2 - 5 seasons?

 

To answer your question...No. what they should do is Trade CJ McCullum for Jimmy Butler.  

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hey c'mon man, Two years ago the Hawks had a HOF player.........................................................

.....................................................Dwight Howard .

 

Seriously though, 2 years ago the Hawks best player was an over 30 year old Paul Millsap looking for a Monster payday, not even close to what Portland has in Lillard, they are in a tougher West while the Hawks can't get out the 1st round in a weak East. Portland still has a player to build their team around, Hawks had none...so not the same boat as the Hawks at all.

I'm begining to think that posters don't see the difference between a 34 year all star and a 25 year old all star.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

To answer your question...No. what they should do is Trade CJ McCullum for Jimmy Butler.  

This would actually be really great for everyone involved. Wow, it’s like the first trade of Butler I’ve seen that actually works on the court IF it works salary wise I dunno ??‍♂️.

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm begining to think that posters don't see the difference between a 34 year all star and a 25 year old all star.

The name is the game.

[Lurker]

Honestly? We've seen about what I've expected from Trae Young so far. I love his passing and feel like he'll be a good 3 point shooter given time but I'm quite concerned about his ability to mix it up inside on offense. I feel like most year 1 PGs are gonna suck because it's an adjustment to the NBA that has gotten even harder than young QBs to the NFL, so the latter half of this season and next season will be telling on him. If he can adjust to where he can at least mix it up averagely in the paint, along with good floaters, then he has the goods to be great. If not then he'll merely be good.

I think PG is a spot where outside of injury recoveries, you are better off "redshirt rookie'ing young PGs" but at the same time, I don't think it takes THAT long. If Young is going to be pretty good with the chance at jumping to where he's going to be great...we're going to see it in 19/20. We'll just see the flashes this year.

[deester11]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Honestly? We've seen about what I've expected from Trae Young so far. I love his passing and feel like he'll be a good 3 point shooter given time but I'm quite concerned about his ability to mix it up inside on offense. I feel like most year 1 PGs are gonna suck because it's an adjustment to the NBA that has gotten even harder than young QBs to the NFL, so the latter half of this season and next season will be telling on him. If he can adjust to where he can at least mix it up averagely in the paint, along with good floaters, then he has the goods to be great. If not then he'll merely be good.

I think PG is a spot where outside of injury recoveries, you are better off "redshirt rookie'ing young PGs" but at the same time, I don't think it takes THAT long. If Young is going to be pretty good with the chance at jumping to where he's going to be great...we're going to see it in 19/20. We'll just see the flashes this year.

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of this in regards to Trae simply due to the make up of this team.  I can't stand KB's assessments of a lot of things, but in this case, Trae is forced to do a lot of things offensively that this team is simply not made up to do.  For all of the love that Prince is getting, he can be hero too much at times.  Beyond that who runs with Trae?  Who finishes consistently with Trae?    I can already say that if Dennis would have given us just a glimpse of a lot of what Trae is doing without the "'tude," we'd have been more acceptable of his misgivings.

[Lurker]

15 minutes ago, deester11 said:

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of this in regards to Trae simply due to the make up of this team.  I can't stand KB's assessments of a lot of things, but in this case, Trae is forced to do a lot of things offensively that this team is simply not made up to do.  For all of the love that Prince is getting, he can be hero too much at times.  Beyond that who runs with Trae?  Who finishes consistently with Trae?    I can already say that if Dennis would have given us just a glimpse of a lot of what Trae is doing without the "'tude," we'd have been more acceptable of his misgivings.

It's not really a take that I just dreamed up after two games. It was a take I had really from after the college basketball season ended earlier this year. That Trae Young was an excellent passer, good 3 point shooter, but I was very concerned about how he did inside, especially with finishing. 

I don't know that he can just get by with a floater and below average finishing and be a great PG. He'd be merely good if he was that. I'd like to see him get to 55-58% finishing. If he can get to what I feel is average, he has all the tools to be special.

And I don't think it's going to take 2-3 years, like KB. If it looks like it's going to work out, we're going to see by 19/20. Not this year, IMHO. It won't be the finished product (which I'd like to see be 45%/38%/88% splits with better protection of the ball) but it'll be a sizeable leap forward. 

So yeah, y'all might not like it but I'm thinking Trae is going to suck regardless as he's trying to adjust and figure it out inside, outside of his passing and shooting. The difference is I don't think it takes years, I think it takes a year before we know if a guy is legit or not at the guard spot.

[deester11]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

It's not really a take that I just dreamed up after two games. It was a take I had really from after the college basketball season ended earlier this year. That Trae Young was an excellent passer, good 3 point shooter, but I was very concerned about how he did inside, especially with finishing. 

I don't know that he can just get by with a floater and below average finishing and be a great PG. He'd be merely good if he was that. I'd like to see him get to 55-58% finishing. If he can get to what I feel is average, he has all the tools to be special.

And I don't think it's going to take 2-3 years, like KB. If it looks like it's going to work out, we're going to see by 19/20. Not this year, IMHO. It won't be the finished product (which I'd like to see be 45%/38%/88% splits with better protection of the ball) but it'll be a sizeable leap forward. 

So yeah, y'all might not like it but I'm thinking Trae is going to suck regardless as he's trying to adjust and figure it out inside, outside of his passing and shooting. The difference is I don't think it takes years, I think it takes a year before we know if a guy is legit or not at the guard spot.

Well...it's ok.  My dream is different.  He's already made several adjustments in his short time.  I just don't see average.  We will see to your point in about 2-3 years.

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Well...it's ok.  My dream is different.  He's already made several adjustments in his short time.  I just don't see average.  We will see to your point in about 2-3 years.

Are you reading? I haven't said it'll take 2-3 years. I've said it WON'T.

I'm just of the opinion you won't see it fully from Trae this year. You'll see the good games and then you'll see the games that show out his weaknesses. It's an opinion, it might be stupid (as I've wildly missed before in other cases, questioned Acuna's promotion out of A+ last year for the Braves and he just blew the freak up after that), but I have the opinion that all young PGs are going to mostly suck. The ones that are going to be good-great are going to take a big leap the immediate season after they take their licks. 

[Guard]

Lurker is right about rookie point guards usually sucking. Even the good ones did in the past.

I do think Trae is showing the signs you want out of a player with his ability. In today’s NBA, playmaking point guards are incredibly valuable and rare. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

To answer your question...No. what they should do is Trade CJ McCullum for Jimmy Butler.  

Exactly.

And to me, that would be Portland at least trying to "go for it" with Lillard in his prime, by teaming him up with another legit All-Star that can also lock down people.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Exactly.

And to me, that would be Portland at least trying to "go for it" with Lillard in his prime, by teaming him up with another legit All-Star that can also lock down people.

Meanwhile, the Hawks held onto guys like Marvin and specifically Josh Smith, like they were the real keys to the squad.   Aggressive franchises aren't afraid to part with young talent, if they can bring in guys who can elevate the team to a higher space.

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Exactly.

And to me, that would be Portland at least trying to "go for it" with Lillard in his prime, by teaming him up with another legit All-Star that can also lock down people.

 

12 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Meanwhile, the Hawks held onto guys like Marvin and specifically Josh Smith, like they were the real keys to the squad.   Aggressive franchises aren't afraid to part with young talent, if they can bring in guys who can elevate the team to a higher space.

Portland hasn't done that though. As of today, they aren't going for it. They're holding unto their young talent.

[deester11]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Are you reading? I haven't said it'll take 2-3 years. I've said it WON'T.

I'm just of the opinion you won't see it fully from Trae this year. You'll see the good games and then you'll see the games that show out his weaknesses. It's an opinion, it might be stupid (as I've wildly missed before in other cases, questioned Acuna's promotion out of A+ last year for the Braves and he just blew the freak up after that), but I have the opinion that all young PGs are going to mostly suck. The ones that are going to be good-great are going to take a big leap the immediate season after they take their licks. 

There are things Trae already struggles with, but I'm saying he's made significant adjustments in all three games.  It would be foolish to expect any PG or rookie to be a finished product their first year.  We must /may/could be saying the same thing...lol.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

And this is what I mean by ceiling.  We don't have a clue how good Trae/Collins/Huerter/Spellman/Prince can be.  We knew what Schröder/Horford/Sap was.

[hazer]

6 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

And this is what I mean by ceiling.  We don't have a clue how good Trae/Collins/Huerter/Spellman/Prince can be.  We knew what Schröder/Horford/Sap was.

Bingo. Ice Très just had a historic night in only his 3rd game. The Huert and CalOmari look like surprisingly good, intelligent, savvy players both with promising shots. Add Fresh Printz, J-Bap, 2 more lottery picks next draft, and another star in a trade and this team competes for that 8th spot and 40 wins in ‘19-‘20. In the 3rd year of the rebuild, like I’ve consistently predicted.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, hazer said:

Add Fresh Printz, J-Bap, 2 more lottery picks next draft, and another star in a trade and this team competes for that 8th spot and 40 wins in ‘19-‘20. In the 3rd year of the rebuild, like I’ve consistently predicted.

8th seed in the East after adding a star player?  The East ain't that tough!  LOL!

[hazer]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

8th seed in the East after adding a star player?  The East ain't that tough!  LOL!

I know my prediction must be right on the money when I’ve got posters on 1 side saying 3 years is too soon to be back in the playoffs for a rebuild and posters on the other side saying 8th seed in 3rd year of rebuild isn’t ambitious enough. Sticking to my story Peo ???

[Peoriabird]

Just now, hazer said:

I know my prediction must be right on the money when I’ve got posters on 1 side saying 3 years is too soon to be back in the playoffs for a rebuild and posters on the other side saying 8th seed in 3rd year of rebuild isn’t ambitious enough. Sticking to my story Peo ???

You just don't want to wake up the spider with an overly rosy outlook!  LOL!