Budenholzer has been meeting with Phoenix Suns management and ownership since Monday

[Peoriabird]

Just now, JTB said:

When was Bud exposed? ...Schlenk purposely tanked this season

Bud was exposed long before this season.

[KB21]

Only to people who have biases against quality basketball and a coach not catering to superstars or running iso heavy systems was Bud "exposed".  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Only to people who have biases against quality basketball and a coach not catering to superstars or running iso heavy systems was Bud "exposed".  

Its not a bias...You want his record year by year?

[EazyRoc]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

This is just laughable.  NO ONE is trading a top pick for a coach.  As i mentioned earlier, Doc won a title with Boston and the LAC only gave up the 28th pick.  Riley is a HOF coach and MIA only had to give up the 19th pick and cash.  Phx ain't giving up a Top 3 pick for ANY coach, let alone Bud.  

Now I agree with you that trading Bud for a 2nd isn't equal value, but IF Bud doesn't want to be here, then the only options are to get as much as you can or take a chance on forcing Bud to coach out the rest of his contract and having team chemistry issues.  

Like another poster said, there’s not another coach out there that can develop players the way Bud can. I’ll take 2 years of player development with our current young players over a mid round first or a 2nd. We already have plenty of picks. I actually agree with KB21 that the way to win isn’t by flooding the roster with a bunch of super young non-contributors. You start adding a ton of young players and the veteran leadership will be pushed out. Combine that with a lack of a experienced coach who has proven he can develop players then you have us in lottery hell for the next 5-8 years for real.

[EazyRoc]

In short, You don’t trade Bud JUST to get something back. You either get back what you want want or you keep him. His 2 years of leadership will be worth much more than a mid 1st.

[REHawksFan]

25 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Like another poster said, there’s not another coach out there that can develop players the way Bud can. I’ll take 2 years of player development with our current young players over a mid round first or a 2nd. We already have plenty of picks. I actually agree with KB21 that the way to win isn’t by flooding the roster with a bunch of super young non-contributors. You start adding a ton of young players and the veteran leadership will be pushed out. Combine that with a lack of a experienced coach who has proven he can develop players then you have us in lottery hell for the next 5-8 years for real.

And like I said before, I don't disagree with this sentiment at all.  I don't think they should trade Bud unless Bud makes it clear that he won't work here any longer.  Then they have no choice and should get as much as they can.  I'm just pointing out that even talking about the lottery pick from Phx is completely absurd for ANY coach, not just Bud.  IF they trade Bud, the likely return would be a late 1st (or future first with conditions) or a 2nd with cash.  I agree those returns are far less than what Bud is "worth" to the Hawks as a coach for 2 years.  Hopefully, Bud is willing to stay with the Hawks and will continue to be amicable for 2 more years.  

[Sothron]

The key to this to me is if Bud is hell bent on leaving. We own his rights for the next two years so we should be able to get compensation for him. I agree that having a coach that has shown he can develop players is worth far more than a mid teen pick or heaven forbid almost useless second round picks.

So if we say the compensation isn't worth it on face value then the question is fit. If Bud and Ressler/front office can't work together then it doesn't matter if you'd rather have Bud or a mid teens pick. Because if that can't be salvaged or worked out behind closed doors then we are already looking for our new coach.

I can't help but wish someone would slap Michael Gearon Jr in the face a few thousand times. This all started with his campaign to get Ferry fired because Ferry wouldn't listen to that idiot. It has cost us Ferry and now indirectly Bud. This team looked like it had such a wonderful future and now it is anything but that.

[JTB]

23 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The key to this to me is if Bud is hell bent on leaving. We own his rights for the next two years so we should be able to get compensation for him. I agree that having a coach that has shown he can develop players is worth far more than a mid teen pick or heaven forbid almost useless second round picks.

So if we say the compensation isn't worth it on face value then the question is fit. If Bud and Ressler/front office can't work together then it doesn't matter if you'd rather have Bud or a mid teens pick. Because if that can't be salvaged or worked out behind closed doors then we are already looking for our new coach.

I can't help but wish someone would slap Michael Gearon Jr in the face a few thousand times. This all started with his campaign to get Ferry fired because Ferry wouldn't listen to that idiot. It has cost us Ferry and now indirectly Bud. This team looked like it had such a wonderful future and now it is anything but that.

Good points! 

Id rather keep bud but keeping him when he doesn’t want to be here could be a bad thing as good as he is. 

And by bad I mean not getting his best efforts cause he doesn’t want to be here and because him and ressler/front office are at odds.

 

goodness you really have to be a hawks fan to put up with staying engaged with all this. I wish I could be a bandwagon fan sometimes but my heart is connected to these shitty hawks lol

[Guard]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

And a bad coach won’t develop a good draft class.

it all works hand in hand. We can nail the draft and absolutely suck ass.

we got the coach pick right with bud and now we likely have to start over. 

We had a good team before that never reached their full potential in joe Johnson, Marvin, J smoove, horford but woody was a horrible offensive mind and wasted all those years on a useless heavy iso offense and didn’t develop any of those players offensively.

 .....Yeah man the coach matters big time regardless of the draft.

Devin Booker, Kristaps Porzingis, Aaron Gordon, and Boogie Cousins are players that come to mind that developed in less than ideal situations. Sure, you want a great infrastructure early in a players development but development can still occur if a talent is legit and he has the drive to get better. That doesn’t mean Schlenk can hire whoever though. This coaching hire will be very important. I’m just saying it is possible.

Even if Bud stays, this team won’t be good next season. No telling if he’d want to stay beyond the 2019 season. It’s clear that he doesn’t want to be like Carlisle. He wants to compete now and what ever team he goes to will have more to work with.  

Edited April 18, 2018 by Guard

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, Guard said:

Devin Booker, Kristaps Porzingis, Aaron Gordon, and Boogie Cousins are players that come to mind that developed in less than ideal situations. Sure, you want a great infrastructure early in a players development but development can still occur if a talent is legit and he has the drive to get better. That doesn’t mean Schlenk can hire whoever though. This coaching hire will be very important. I’m just saying it is possible.

Even if Bud stays, this team won’t be good next season. No telling if he’d want to stay beyond the 2019 season. It’s clear that he doesn’t want to be like Carlisle. He wants to compete now and what ever team he goes to will have more to work with.  

Have those guys really developed into what they should be though?  I would say no to at least three of them.  Porzingis may be the exception.  Personally, I don't think Aaron Gordon is that good anyway.  He's a player caught between two positions and lacks the skill level to be a top player at either position.  Boogie Cousins is a good player but a complete turd for team chemistry.  Devin Booker is an inefficient shot chucker that doesn't play defense.

Now, with that said, Devin Booker is a guy that, with Bud coaching him, could very well become a much more efficient shooter/better decision maker.  

[TheFuzz]

I want to keep Bud. Best coach we've had, best asset we've got. If he's hell bent on leaving we should get what we can for him. And F*** Ressler.

But I think a reasonable and sneaky good get would be that Bucks pick for him (the Bucks pick won't convey this year, gets lighter protections a few years down the line).

Edit: Also, there ARE other good coaches out there. It's no guarantee we get them, but they're out there. I've liked what I've seen of Fizdale, or getting some brand new blood would be nice.

Edited April 18, 2018 by TheFuzz

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Question:  Can't Bud just resign, and give up his current contract?

Then sign with the new organization?

We know that Bud is owed 14 million total over the next 2 years.   If he resigned and gave that up, then some other team turn around and gives him a 4 yr - 26 million deal, can he do that?

Edited April 18, 2018 by TheNorthCydeRises

[KB21]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Question:  Can't Bud just resign, and give up his current contract?

Then sign with the new organization?

We know that Bud is owed 14 million total over the next 2 years.   If he resigned and gave that up, then some other team turn around and gives him a 4 yr - 26 million deal, can he do that?

No, not until his two years are up.  

[hazer]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think it will be #16 for Bud. 

We're going to have 4 first rounders. 

That would be acceptable. And also fix the draft board intel problem.

[Sothron]

12 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Question:  Can't Bud just resign, and give up his current contract?

Then sign with the new organization?

We know that Bud is owed 14 million total over the next 2 years.   If he resigned and gave that up, then some other team turn around and gives him a 4 yr - 26 million deal, can he do that?

He has a contract to be a NBA head coach. If he quit then he'd have to wait out the two years to then be able to sign a new deal. This is why Phoenix would have to give us compensation to essentially buy out his contract to give him a new deal with them.

Edit: I'm not sure but since he would be under contract if he did quit the Hawks could possibly toll his contract to make sure he still couldn't be hired by another NBA team since he'd still owe them two years under contract. So he wouldn't just have to wait out two years to then be able to sign with whoever he wanted.

[AHF]

On 4/18/2018 at 7:08 AM, EazyRoc said:

Man listen. If Schlenk trades Bud and does not get PHXs TOP pick, I probably will not support the Hawks until he’s fired. You don’t worry about what the OTHER team is willing to do. The only thing of value PHX has that’s even close to Bud is their top pick. If he flips Bud for anything less, Schlenk is more interested in “leaving his mark” than building a winning team. 

No coach will ever bring a top pick like that.  If owner and GM wanted to keep Bud, they wouldn't consider letting him go.  They will only let him go if they want to do so and if they do trade him they will absolutely not get a top 4 pick in a draft like this.

[EazyRoc]

44 minutes ago, AHF said:

No coach will ever bring a top pick like that.  If owner and GM wanted to keep Bud, they wouldn't consider letting him go.  They will only let him go if they want to do so and if they do trade him they will absolutely not get a top 4 pick in a draft like this.

If Phoenix drafts higher, then you have to do a pick swap and maybe filler (coming to us) to make it work. I think moving a few spots up in the lottery will mean much more for this team than another mid 1st.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, EazyRoc said:

If Phoenix drafts higher, then you have to do a pick swap and maybe filler (coming to us) to make it work. I think moving a few spots up in the lottery will mean much more for this team than another mid 1st.

I've already said this, but I think the best we can hope for given the precedent that has been set on previous coaching trades is a swap of 19 for 16 and the Suns 2nd round pick.

[DS5]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I've already said this, but I think the best we can hope for given the precedent that has been set on previous coaching trades is a swap of 19 for 16 and the Suns 2nd round pick.

Agreed. I don't think a team would trade a first overall for any coach. That's probably the best we can expect, if it happens at all. I'm starting to think that Phoenix has already moved on anyway. 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, DS5 said:

 I'm starting to think that Phoenix has already moved on anyway. 

Exactly!  Otherwise we would have heard something by now!