Welcome to Atlanta Omari Spellman

[turnermx]

Dennis also likes to apply full court pressure and if Trae is handling the ball he'll have more energy to do so. I also see Trae finding Dennis if he moves off the ball

 

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[AHF]

14 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Its called trap if the guy is a good offensive player.

So you trap a 6'7'' player who has handles with two 6'1''-6'2'' inch players (without great length) and then leave someone open.  That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

11 hours ago, turnermx said:

Dennis also likes to apply full court pressure and if Trae is handling the ball he'll have more energy to do so. I also see Trae finding Dennis if he moves off the ball

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

 

Dennis off the ball is super easy to defend because he isn't a good jump shooter.  You give him the jump shot and cheat off of him while the other defender sells out to stay tight on Trae.  I do think Dennis could do some damage cutting to the basket with Trae delivering the ball but Dennis off the ball is something I would love to see if I am the opposing coach.  

[benhillboy]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:33 PM, Spud2nique said:

Yup he’s Moish for sure. Hey, I’d rather him be Mo that Draymond who sleeps with prostitutes and it doesn’t get mentioned nearly enough. 

I thought you were supposed to pay them to leave.  I can see Draymond waking his lady of the night to a fatback breakfast with his mama.

On 6/25/2018 at 11:48 AM, hawkman said:

If fans loved Pero they're also going to love Spellman.

Sign me up.  I need to see some gooning.

[Peoriabird]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

So you trap a 6'7'' player who has handles with two 6'1''-6'2'' inch players (without great length) and then leave someone open. 

1st of all, who said you had to trap with guards only...secondly, the Hawks trapped a lot under Bud.

[NBASupes]

Look at this: 

Dec 22, 2011, 05:39 pm Michigan State had some question marks going into this season, lacking consistency at the point guard position and in the post. At an impressive 10-2, however, things are clearly working out better than expected and senior forward Draymond Green is playing a heavy role in that. There is not a more skilled and versatile power forward in the country, as Green can score, rebound, and pass the ball at an elite level on any given night. While Green is clearly very productive at the NCAA level, projecting him in the NBA isn't a seamless endeavor, primarily due to his average physical tools and tweener status. Listed at a generous 6'7 and 230-pounds with long arms, Green is very undersized for the power forward position. He is not a particularly explosive athlete either, lacking ideal quickness and leaping ability, despite being highly coordinated and mobile. While he has made impressive strides slimming down his frame, further improving his body and maximizing his athleticism would help his case significantly.

 

On the offensive end, Green's deficiencies with his back-to-the-basket and off of the dribble are well known. Though he is averaging a career high 15.9 points per game, he continues to struggle as a finisher, making just 47% of his attempts inside the arc and 32.4% from beyond. That being said, his most NBA-ready offensive attribute is his jump shot. Green continues to display the shooting touch that he displayed as a junior, making over one 3-pointer per game. While his slow, flat-footed release and inconsistent percentages leave something to be desired, when given a chance to set his feet and get a clean shot off, he shows enough potential to lead you to believe he could develop into a solid floor spacer in time. As Green is often Michigan State's de facto point guard in lieu of consistency elsewhere in the rotation, it remains to be seen if his lower senior shooting numbers are a result of ideal playmakers around him. His career high 75% from the foul line and excellent showing against Gonzaga (where he made 4-5 attempts), leaves some reason for optimism in this regard. One area where Green continues to excel is with his passing.

 

Though his assist/turnover ratio is less impressive this year as in the past, watching him facilitate the offense in transition, out of the low post, and even as the team's traditional point guard in half court sets is remarkable. So, too, is his ability to seemingly seamlessly adjust to new personnel. Though Michigan State fields a very inexperienced roster without much initial chemistry, Green, in particular, has an uncanny ability to get his teammates the ball in ideal positions to score. NBA decision makers will like the versatility he displays as a shooter and passer, not to mention his above average ball-handling skills and basketball IQ, considering his potential as a stretch-power forward off the bench. Unfortunately, Green's defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior. At 6'7, he is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face-up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time. Still, he continues to be a rebound the ball at an excellent rate, even against top competition as evidenced by his 18-rebound effort against North Carolina's NBA-caliber frontcourt.

 

His 12.1 rebounds per-40 are a career-high, and at just 6'7, he is grabbing 25% of his team's total defensive rebounds. His soft hands and nose for the ball help him here, but his aggressiveness, in particular is on full display on the glass. When describing Green's potential at the next level, his rebounding, 3-point shooting and elite passing ability are certainly intriguing. He also brings a host of intangibles to the table, however, from his reputation as a good teammate to his consistently high IQ brand of basketball that may make his deficiencies less glaring in a spot-role. While Green certainly doesn't look the part of an NBA player, there is no doubt that he possesses a variety of skills that at the very least will put him in consideration to be drafted or earn a NBA roster spot. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Draymond-Green-5859/ ©DraftExpress

[NBASupes]

Draymond 2015- 

 

There are numerous psychological factors at play when it comes to finding the right fit and making it in the NBA. These become even more important for players who don't have the nine lives of their lottery land brethren.

 

These factors are detailed at length in Opportunity Knocks: How Situation Impacts Success. In 2012, Draymond Green slipped all the way to #35, despite plenty of pre-draft buzz that had him looking like a potential first round pick. Green was, unsurprisingly, impressive during his pre-draft interviews and his on-court growth and overall performance were well-regarded by media and scouts alike.

 

Despite this acclaim, Green fell victim to the standard talk-yourself-out-of-him evaluation that often happens to low upside upperclassmen, including here on DraftExpress: Isn't quick or athletic Too small to play power forward ... Too slow to defend small forwards. There is always someone younger and more explosive to be had in the draft and while these players have theoretically superior upside, the bottom line is that you typically end up with a fringe rotation player at best, particularly outside of the lottery.

 

With production being a crapshoot in this range, why not bank on the upside of a player with off-the-charts intangibles? The Warriors did just that; and three years later, Green is the leader of the best team in the NBA and will almost undoubtedly land a contract offer close to or possibly at the max this summer in restricted free agency. You're the voice of this team, league MVP Stephen Curry said during his award speech to Green, Your voice and your spirit every single day, whether it's going well, whether you're making shots or missing shots, it doesn't matter, you're the same person and we can count on that every single night. That's what makes you who you are as a part of your story and your journey. SITUATION FACTORS: INDIVIDUAL STORY & ANTICIPATED ROLE

 

Green's story began as a top 100-RSCI high school recruit and two-time state champion from Saginaw, Michigan. After a rollercoaster recruiting ride, Green ultimately landed at Michigan State, where everything worked out perfectly; he would become one of the greatest Spartans in the school's history, according to head coach Tom Izzo, who called him the perfect Spartan. Day-Day would exchange all of his points, rebounds and assists for wins, Izzo told ESPN in 2012, well before Green would become an NBA star. A lot of people say that publicly, but they don't really feel that way. He feels it. There's not a question in my mind that Day-Day is all about winning. This is not surprising, considering that Green's greatest measurable traits are both his Dominance, (88th percentile) and Team Identity, (91st percentile) ratings. These categories are defined as being attentive to others, unpretentious, assertive, uninhibited, and group-oriented.

 

Out of over 900 players in the SA database, Green ranks fifth for being a Rainmaker, a quality of many overachievers who have the natural ability to connect with others, gain their trust, and align their goals with those of the team. Rainmakers are also defined by their Internal Motivation, (91st percentile) but Green didn't enter college with that mindset. "Early in his freshman year he wasn't practicing real hard, Spartans assistant coach DJ Stephens told the Detroit Free Press. So I had one of the managers go get a red practice jersey and bring it to (Green).

 

I told him he was gonna wear it because we were going to redshirt him. I don't know if I ever saw him that angry." Motivated, Green started working harder and smarter during the summer of his sophomore season to eventually become the Big Ten Player of the Year as a senior. No other player in the Sports Aptitude database rates out higher, collectively, in those three key categories. There are a number of highly successful players in the league who were labeled as having questionable work ethic initially, but measured out well in Internal Motivation. As is often the case, the situations these players were placed in had a negative impact on their understanding of what hard work truly required. Often times they've had high-level success and reached their competitive goals doing things their way.

 

The key for Green and all the others was being placed in a situation where they were faced with their own limitations and forced to adapt in order to live up to the expectations placed on them Rainmakers thrive in such situations. After four collegiate seasons, Green's progression was undeniable. Per Synergy Sports Technology, after relying on pick-and-roll and cuts to score a bulk of his points as an underclassman, Green eventually flipped the script and saw his usage and production rise down on the block and behind the arc. Green's dramatic points per possession increase on isolation plays are unheard of for his position. Green came to school as a pudgy, undersized center and left as a ball handling, passing wizard and a 38% three-point shooter.

 

As Jonathan Givony wrote in a 2011 scouting report, there is not a more skilled and versatile power forward in the country, as Green can score, rebound, and pass the ball at an elite level on any given night. Still, Green's lack of a true position, uninspiring athleticism, and average lateral quickness was a problem, which is why it was tough to project him as an adequate NBA defender. This helps describe why he wasn't a lottery pick, but it doesn't explain why he was only projected as a late-first or early-second round selection.

 

SITUATION FACTORS: TEAM ENVIRONMENT & OPPORTUNITY GIVEN Despite all the hours poured into the exhaustive pre-draft process, Green's tantalizing psychological profile gave way to a litany of players who had safer positional projections, athleticism, and youth. No one could've expected him to become the star that he is today, but in college he maximized his production by dramatically improving on all his weaknesses to become one of the NCAA's best all-around players, and his progression in the pros has virtually mirrored that story. "I hate to say this, but the intangibles he brings to your team can't be measured," Warriors assistant head coach Alvin Gentry said to the Free Press. "The guy really is a coach's dream. You can't place a value on that. Use every cliché you can. His teams always win.

 

The squad you put him on in a scrimmage, his team is going to win." Contrary to the above sentiment, Green rated as the #1 profile of his draft class, in terms of his measurable personality traits. There is no replacement for physical ability, but the best players from pick #20 and on almost all slot according to their measurable intangibles when doing a re-draft. Green entered the NBA knowing he'd have to fight for a role, and he did just that by taking advantage of his most exceptional qualities. Like many second round picks, Green's greatest opportunity to gain a foothold on his team would be by building relationships and gaining champions for his cause among the more established players. This is second nature for a player who is 42% more Direct, 36% Warmer, and 25% more Group-Oriented than the average NBA player.

 

Simply put, Green puts tremendous stock in how he is perceived by those around him. However, this by itself isn't enough, as there are many players who focus too much on the social side of the NBA lifestyle and forget about the work that needs to be done. Green was fortunate that the Warriors had a solid organizational direction that would provide continuity and the opportunity to make a mark. When Brandon Rush and Richard Jefferson got injured during his rookie year, he stepped in and filled the void without looking back. And for a team looking for more defensive tenacity, David Lee's injury opened the door for Green to carve out a feature role on the NBA's best team.

 

This is where Green's killer instinct helped him take advantage of opportunity when it presented itself, while garnering the support necessary to grow beyond the bounds of that initial role. Green is labeled as a Bold/Combative competitor in the SA classification system. This category is filled with some of the best and brightest in the NBA. Green ranks in the 94th percentile in this category, 26% higher than the average player. These types of ratings can lead to issues for players lacking the charisma and empathy for others that Green possesses. The combination of the two, however, is a recipe for success. Despite being such a young player, Green quickly became the vocal leader of the Warriors after his former head coach Marc Jackson encouraged him to pursue the role. But Green may not have needed the push, because he is who he is: the tone-setter of his locker room, both on and off the court, the player who establishes the culture. Green is the opposite of a mixer, he is the one who speaks his mind and holds others accountable, while doing it in a fair, political way.

 

The Warriors, a team filled with more lead-by-example types, needed this socially bold, dominant personality to lead them, and he has. The average Player Efficiency Rating for picks #21 to #40 is 11.9, with only a slight drop in average PER as the draft slips into he second round. That level of production is hardly worth swinging for the fences when you have a player with Green's otherworldly observable and measurable personality characteristics sitting in your lap. A culture-setting personality and a plan of action is never a bad starting point when you are looking for the true high upside gems in the land of the 20% hit rate. Historically, players with Green's range of personality attributes almost always find success, though not always with the team's they start off with.

 

Like most highly competitive players, Green needed a situation that would place a level of expectation on him and provide a path to opportunity. Green also benefited by building relationships with players who had the right stuff to become winners in an organization that was heading in the right direction. If he had gone to a team with a turnstile roster and little clarity on where they were going, Green's best qualities could have laid dormant for years. Fortunately for both Draymond Green and the Golden State Warriors, that wasn't the case. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Draymond-Green-5859/ ©DraftExpress

[marco102]

12 hours ago, AHF said:

So you trap a 6'7'' player who has handles with two 6'1''-6'2'' inch players (without great length) and then leave someone open.  That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Dennis off the ball is super easy to defend because he isn't a good jump shooter.  You give him the jump shot and cheat off of him while the other defender sells out to stay tight on Trae.  I do think Dennis could do some damage cutting to the basket with Trae delivering the ball but Dennis off the ball is something I would love to see if I am the opposing coach.  

Dennis is actualy a pretty good spot up three point shooter.  I don't remember the number but it's respectable.

[AHF]

11 hours ago, marco102 said:

Dennis is actualy a pretty good spot up three point shooter.  I don't remember the number but it's respectable.

I'd be interested in seeing the stats.  If he shot like 37% spot up and 20% otherwise then him playing off the ball becomes much more appealing than looking at it with his blended rate.  If you find a link, please post!

On the trapping, I think length is really important for that.  When you send a trap at someone who owns a 5-6 height advantage over the person guarding him it is much harder to close out his passing angles than with two people of similar length.  So I'm skeptical that trapping (which is always a risky play if not supported by long defenders and top notch execution) will be the answer to how to defend with a Trae/Dennis backcourt regardless of which player is abandoning his man to come double Trae or Dennis' SG assignment.

[Peoriabird]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'd be interested in seeing the stats.  If he shot like 37% spot up and 20% otherwise then him playing off the ball becomes much more appealing than looking at it with his blended rate.  If you find a link, please post!

On the trapping, I think length is really important for that.  When you send a trap at someone who owns a 5-6 height advantage over the person guarding him it is much harder to close out his passing angles than with two people of similar length.  So I'm skeptical that trapping (which is always a risky play if not supported by long defenders and top notch execution) will be the answer to how to defend with a Trae/Dennis backcourt regardless of which player is abandoning his man to come double Trae or Dennis' SG assignment.

Bud did it with Isaiah Taylor and Dennis...What's the difference?

[High5]

@marco102 @AHF

According to NBA.com stats, Dennis was terrible on spot-ups last season. 0.77 points per possession, 30.3% FG, and 38.1% EFG. Of course, he had the lowest frequency of spot-ups on the team other than Plumlee. 

However, the season before his numbers were very good. 1.23 PPP, 46.1% FG, and 61.8% EFG. Still the 2nd lowest frequency behind Dwight. 

https://stats.nba.com/players/spot-up/?sort=TeamNameAbbreviation&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season

Similarly on catch and shoot 3's, he shot 28% last season and 39.6% the season before. And 38.3% the season the season before that.

https://stats.nba.com/player/203471/shots-dash/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season

Make of that what you will. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

@marco102 @AHF

According to NBA.com stats, Dennis was terrible on spot-ups last season. 0.77 points per possession, 30.3% FG, and 38.1% EFG. Of course, he had the lowest frequency of spot-ups on the team other than Plumlee. 

However, the season before his numbers were very good. 1.23 PPP, 46.1% FG, and 61.8% EFG. Still the 2nd lowest frequency behind Dwight. 

https://stats.nba.com/players/spot-up/?sort=TeamNameAbbreviation&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season

Similarly on catch and shoot 3's, he shot 28% last season and 39.6% the season before. And 38.3% the season the season before that.

https://stats.nba.com/player/203471/shots-dash/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season

Make of that what you will. 

My take, he can't be your best player shoudering the scoring load.

[nathan2331]

My take, he can't be your best player shoudering the scoring load.

But no one thought he could? That's where I get lost with the Dennis hate. He had a year as our best scorer with trash efficiency, but no one thought he could be our lead guy. And he doesn't get paid like it either. That's why I hate the Trae pick, Young could very well become a better PG, but I'd still say we're better off with Dennis + Doncic or Bamba.

[KB21]

13 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

28 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My take, he can't be your best player shoudering the scoring load.

 

But no one thought he could? That's where I get lost with the Dennis hate. He had a year as our best scorer with trash efficiency, but no one thought he could be our lead guy. And he doesn't get paid like it either. That's why I hate the Trae pick, Young could very well become a better PG, but I'd still say we're better off with Dennis + Doncic or Bamba.

Dennis is not a starting caliber player, period.  Even on a good team, he's still got his issues with shooting, shot selection, and defense.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Dennis is not a starting caliber player, period.  Even on a good team, he's still got his issues with shooting, shot selection, and defense.

John Wall would disagree with you.

[Peoriabird]

31 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

46 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

My take, he can't be your best player shoudering the scoring load.

 

But no one thought he could? That's where I get lost with the Dennis hate. He had a year as our best scorer with trash efficiency, but no one thought he could be our lead guy. And he doesn't get paid like it either. That's why I hate the Trae pick, Young could very well become a better PG, but I'd still say we're better off with Dennis + Doncic or Bamba.

I am starting to understand why the defensive center with limited offensive skill like Bamba has become obsolete.  The game is no longer played in the paint but rather on the perimeter where a slower big man struggles on defense.  If he has average to below average post skills meaning post moves and passing then he will be doubled forcing ineffiency and turnovers like we saw with Howard.  If he can't put the ball on the floor or shoot on the move, he will be chased of his spot if he is an adequate set shooter.  As far as Doncic is concern, He can shoot from distance and struggles on defense.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Bud did it with Isaiah Taylor and Dennis...What's the difference?

When did we successfully have Taylor as the primary ballhandler and Dennis playing off the ball?  I don't remember this configuration driving wins.

[KB21]

Just to note, the Hawks are not tendering an offer to Josh Magette for the two way contract.  Jaylen Adams has taken his spot.  Jaylen Adams may actually have a future on this team as well.  Very good shooter!

[nathan2331]

 

 

I am starting to understand why the defensive center with limited offensive skill like Bamba has become obsolete.  The game is no longer played in the paint but rather on the perimeter where a slower big man struggles on defense.  If he has average to below average post skills meaning post moves and passing then he will be doubled forcing ineffiency and turnovers like we saw with Howard.  If he can't put the ball on the floor or shoot on the move, he will be chased of his spot if he is an adequate set shooter.  As far as Doncic is concern, He can shoot from distance and struggles on defense.

 

Rudy Gobert just won defensive player of the year, and now he's obsolete??? I agree that big men with limited skillsets are becoming less useful, but in my opinion Bamba has the potential to surpass Gobert offensively. He's more athletic and he's at least shown the desire to improve his shooting and post moves. If you don't buy it that's fine since he didn't show much at Texas, but that's my opinion of him from the pre-draft process.

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Just to note, the Hawks are not tendering an offer to Josh Magette for the two way contract.  Jaylen Adams has taken his spot.  Jaylen Adams may actually have a future on this team as well.  Very good shooter!

Wait, did we not tender an offer or did we realize Buttz was gonna take him anyway and we were powerless to stop it?

[nathan2331]

Dennis is not a starting caliber player, period.  Even on a good team, he's still got his issues with shooting, shot selection, and defense.

Yes he is. You might not like his game, but he can play in this league. He's got parts of his game he needs to improve on, and he regressed in some areas this past season, but few people were mad when we gave him the new contract. If this was a better team, I think we'd see a better Dennis.