Official 2019 Draft thread

[marco102]

Cam Reddish discusses his questionable intangibles.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Cam Reddish discusses his questionable intangibles.

He definitely got questionable intangibles but it's not bad or awful or nothing, just not to the level of guys like Hunter or Culver in this class. Just below average. To me intangibles don't matter as much if the player you are looking at has potential to score 20 and defend at a high level and you have high intangibles guys around him already. At the end of the day, he is a willing teammate and willing to make sacrifices if he has to due to his personality which is a fit for us.  

 

More important is his talent, fit, ability, and potential in our system with our personnel and coaching. 

[marco102]

Just now, NBASupes said:

He definitely got questionable intangibles but it's not bad or awful or nothing, just not to the level of guys like Hunter or Culver in this class. Just below average. To me intangibles don't matter as much if the player you are looking at has potential to score 20 and defend at a high level and you have high intangibles guys around him already. At the end of the day, he is a willing teammate and willing to make sacrifices if he has to due to his personality which is a fit for us.  

 

More important is his talent, fit, ability, and potential in our system with our personnel and coaching. 

To me intangibles = mind, attitude, work ethic.  From all reports, he has a crazy work ethic, which many of detractors tend to ignore.  Like I said before Cam does not have an Alpha's mentality, but we already have one of those in Trae.  Cam's personality will mesh well with what we have and I believe his hard work will pay off with our player development.

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

To me intangibles = mind, attitude, work ethic.  From all reports, he has a crazy work ethic, which many of detractors tend to ignore.  Like I said before Cam does not have an Alpha's mentality, but we already have one of those in Trae.  Cam's personality will mesh well with what we have and I believe his hard work will pay off with our player development.

For me, that's just mind, attitude and work ethic. All of which I rate Cam quite high. Intangibles for me is the ability to do the little things within a game, each possession, can be a coach on the floor by action. No one in this draft does that better than De'Andre Hunter. He is the only player in this class with elite intangible potential. 

Some of the guys I gave this to over the years were: 

Steph Curry

Noah

Horford

Mikal Bridges

Kemba Walker

Marcus Smart

 

Justise Winslow

 

Buddy Hield

 

Honestly, guys with elite or potential for elite intangibles have all outplayed their expected value in the NBA. All of them with time and experience of course. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He definitely got questionable intangibles but it's not bad or awful or nothing, just not to the level of guys like Hunter or Culver in this class. Just below average. To me intangibles don't matter as much if the player you are looking at has potential to score 20 and defend at a high level and you have high intangibles guys around him already. At the end of the day, he is a willing teammate and willing to make sacrifices if he has to due to his personality which is a fit for us.  

 

More important is his talent, fit, ability, and potential in our system with our personnel and coaching. 

The Guy shot 40% from 2 point range.  How do you do that unless you have issues with your athleticism and core strength?

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

The Guy shot 40% from 2 point range.  How do you do that unless you have issues with your athleticism and core strength?

Isn't that why he had the surgery? to fix core muscle? Which he injured early in his career at Duke but played thru it all year?

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Isn't that why he had the surgery? to fix core muscle? Which he injured early in his career at Duke but played thru it all year?

I hope you're right if they draft him.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

The Guy shot 40% from 2 point range.  How do you do that unless you have issues with your athleticism and core strength?

His athleticism with space is top notch. His athleticism in traffic is bad. Why? Core strength and lack of explosiveness. 

How do you help his weaknesses. Simple: Actions, (movement, screens, pin downs, flares, cutting), play him around players with great offensive gravity, and play at a fast pace. 1. is EASY and most teams can do this. 2. Is HARD AF. Most teams lack players with great offensive gravity and almost all bad teams lack this but we don't. We have Trae, Kev and John. 3. We play at the fastest pace with Sacramento. They are better all around, we are much better on offense when we figured it out. 

For Cam, we aren't just the perfect fit, we are the maximum fit. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Isn't that why he had the surgery? to fix core muscle? Which he injured early in his career at Duke but played thru it all year?

Marvin used to have core strength issues. It can be fixed to a degree. You can work in the weight room and with trainers to fix it but it takes time. I had core strength issues as a player, it took about two years to get it to a decent level for the level of competition. It's about coordination drills and core exercises. 

 

Some players have elite core strength, Trae, Tony Parker, A.I., Isiah Thomas, Steph Curry. Those guys are like ants. They hard to knock off of spots. It's much tougher for taller players. 

 

Core strength has nothing to do with injuries. That impacts other areas. If anything, core strength tends to prevent injuries. I know it's something the Hawks work on A LOT. 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 Some players have elite core strength, Trae, Tony Parker, A.I., Isiah Thomas, Steph Curry. Those guys are like ants. They hard to knock off of spots. It's much tougher for taller players. 

 

You can probably add Lebron and Leonard to that list

[EazyRoc]

24 minutes ago, marco102 said:

To me intangibles = mind, attitude, work ethic.  From all reports, he has a crazy work ethic, which many of detractors tend to ignore.  Like I said before Cam does not have an Alpha's mentality, but we already have one of those in Trae.  Cam's personality will mesh well with what we have and I believe his hard work will pay off with our player development.

Having crazy work ethic doesn’t mean much if it doesn’t translate to increased skill and production.

Another thing...it’s not about being an “Alpha”. It’s about being a high level competitor.

The reason he’s even had to answer questions about it is because it is questionable. 

He’s got actual basketball limitations as well. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

You can probably add Lebron and Leonard to that list

LeBron, yes. Leonard, no. He has improved over the years in this area but his raw power, strength and functional strength to go with his athletic ability and tools is what makes him special. But his core strength isn't elite but close, especially as he has gotten older. Those two just have rare strength for their position. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LeBron, yes. Leonard, no. He has improved over the years in this area but his raw power, strength and functional strength to go with his athletic ability and tools is what makes him special. But his core strength isn't elite but close, especially as he has gotten older. Those two just have rare strength for their position. 

You sure about that cause I have never seen Leonard moved of his spot by anyone.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Having crazy work ethic doesn’t mean much if it doesn’t translate to increased skill and production.

Another thing...it’s not about being an “Alpha”. It’s about being a high level competitor.

The reason he’s even had to answer questions about it is because it is questionable. 

He’s got actual basketball limitations as well. 

My issue with you on Cam isn't that you are wrong, it's just that he is a system player. We can talk about Draymond's value to the Warriors to the Hawks but for the Warriors, it's elite. We can talk about Austin Rivers with the Wizards compared to Rockets or Clippers with CP3 but he's a system player. He needs to be around a lot of offensive gravity to be as effective as he can be. 

For his Basketball limitations, he makes up for it with our personnel which plays to his strengths and can limit his weaknesses. Austin Rivers was one of the worst players in the league with Washington. With Houston, he was a quality rotation piece. Faried hasn't played mins in two years, joins Houston and is dropping double doubles instantly. 

Fit matters. Some players just can't join any team and be effective. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

You sure about that cause I have never seen Leonard moved of his spot by anyone.

He can lose his balance more than guys like Bron even without heavy contact. His functional strength is more important in terms of getting to spots. 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My issue with you on Cam isn't that you are wrong, it's just that he is a system player. We can talk about Draymond's value to the Warriors to the Hawks but for the Warriors, it's elite. We can talk about Austin Rivers with the Wizards compared to Rockets or Clippers with CP3 but he's a system player. He needs to be around a lot of offensive gravity to be as effective as he can be. 

For his Basketball limitations, he makes up for it with our personnel which plays to his strengths and can limit his weaknesses. Austin Rivers was one of the worst players in the league with Washington. With Houston, he was a quality rotation piece. Faried hasn't played mins in two years, joins Houston and is dropping double doubles instantly. 

Fit matters. Some players just can't join any team and be effective. 

But don't you think that the players I listed are either better or have the potential to be better than Cam?

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

But don't you think that the players I listed are either better or have the potential to be better than Cam?

Which players you listed? 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Which players you listed? 

Starting to feel the best prospect in the draft not named Zion or a point guard are the following

1) Jarrett Culver ( Although I wouldn't trade up for him)

2) Jaxson Hayes

3) Sekou Doumbouya

4) Goga Bitadze

5) Brandon Clarke ( I list Clarke last because he is a bit of a duplicate of John Collin although he might be better than Collins)

 

I am not high on Reddish or Little although I would stomach Hunter if Schlenk went in that direction.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Starting to feel the best prospect in the draft not named Zion or a point guard are the following

1) Jarrett Culver ( Although I wouldn't trade up for him)

2) Jaxson Hayes

3) Sekou Doumbouya

4) Goga Bitadze

5) Brandon Clarke ( I list Clarke last because he is a bit of a duplicate of John Collin although he might be better than Collins)

 

I am not high on Reddish or Little although I would stomach Hunter if Schlenk went in that direction.

1. For us, Cam has much higher potential than Culver. I actually think Culver somewhat limited here even if he might have a chance at success more here than elsewhere just due to his position and role but Cam and it's not even close. 

2. Cam, but Hayes is the center who I rate with the highest ceiling but the lowest floor. 6/9. In general, he would be someone with more potential than Cam. 

3. See #2 but for PF's instead. 

4. Cam. Pretty wide gap. 

5. I actually love Clarke for us long term but Cam has the clear edge.

 

There is no one in this draft I would take potential wise over Cam for us other than Zion. Truth is, there is no one I would take short term either.