Half the season behind us, what FA targets are you most hoping on Schlenk's radar?

[JTB]

Just now, KB21 said:

I'd trade our pick for Bridges and then flip Collins in a deal for JJJ.

Bruh....Memphis ain’t doing that! That would fix all our Issues damn near defensively that’s how I know it’s not going to happen .

i would give Memphis Collins and our first rd pick for JJJ and they won’t even accept that! Even if it was number one probably 

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Sorry Bud....One  Star post. That leaves us with another wing that can't shoot and no PF.

And No....Harrell isn't a starter. He's an Energy big off the bench.

You are just piling on Collins because if last night's game.

Tell LP call some actually plays for Collins from the post. Last season he said he doesn't call plays for him....he should.

Yes, his defense needs work, just like EVERY single player on the squad.

You keep saying it but all of the data says Harrell is a lot more than this. We saw this story with Millsap and Utah.

Millsap is just an high energy big, not an all star type at all just looking at Utah. Big Al Jefferson was their guy. All he ever was in Atlanta was an All Star. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Maybe it is but do you really expect to get a fair deal for Collins. Brooklyn was talking to us for Collins for freaking Dinwiddie. No one is going to give us a $1 for $1. Especially if John is going to be a RFA. Get value and move on. 

This is what building is all about. Not hoarding assets and deciding the right time to hold them or fold them. 

John did amazing for us but at the 4, he can defend shit and at the 5 v. An athletic four, it's no better. 

What was the entirety of such talks with Brooklyn? Saying we called about Dinwiddie and they asked about Collins doesn't mean squat. (When ALL reports suggest EVERY team was told NO on Collins trades).

 

[AHF]

In the 2018-19 and 2019-20 seasons, we are 10-37 in games missed by JC.  That is a 21.3% winning rate.  In games where he has played, we've gone 34-57.  That is a 37% win rate.

Obviously we need to step way up next season but a 16.7% difference in win rate is huge.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How quickly some forgot how bad we looked without him for those 25 games. I also said he won't fix all that ails this team.

 

You are so right with this. Its a team issue and there is more to this than just Collins. I predicted a 40% to 50% winning percentage with Collins back and a healthy team. I fully expect that with the additions of Capela, Dedmon, and Teague. We get Fernando and Capela healthy, it would be nice to see some of those lopsided wins swing in our favor.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

So ....

I do think Harrell can start but he does get winded kinda easy to me!

a few weeks back when we played the clippers...Harrell was absolutely killing us in the first half! Very similar to Julius Randle the other week but as the game went on vs the clippers JC did start to have his way with them while Trez looked tired out! And vs the knicks JC was giving them buckets right back from the get go.

 

i still want Harrell I believe he could start if need be but I’m getting the idea that it may be a good idea to invest in both Harrell and Collins long term.....maybe anyways 

That's why I said he's an energy big. He only knows one way to play.

I take no issue with having him off our bench.

[bleachkit]

A little note on John Collins. According to Basketball-Reference.com, only 11 players have averaged better than 19 points, 10 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks per game by their age-22 seasons. Five (Bob McAdoo, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O’Neal) are already in the Hall of Fame. Two (Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett) are about to be; two more (Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis) are perhaps on pace to join them. The 10th was Elton Brand, a no. 1 overall pick who was an absolute monster before tearing his Achilles tendon. The 11th is Collins. His value is plenty.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's not amazing because offense just isn't what we need long term. We need offense and defense.

What? Which is it?

That's contradictory and our numbers without JC say we need offense.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

A little note on John Collins. According to Basketball-Reference.com, only 11 players have averaged better than 19 points, 10 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks per game by their age-22 seasons. Five (Bob McAdoo, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O’Neal) are already in the Hall of Fame. Two (Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett) are about to be; two more (Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis) are perhaps on pace to join them. The 10th was Elton Brand, a no. 1 overall pick who was an absolute monster before tearing his Achilles tendon. The 11th is Collins. His value is plenty.

 

Now I'm second guessing whether I have enough information to judge a Bridges deal.  Did 90% of 23 year olds averaging 8 points and 4 rebounds from the SF spot also make the HOF?

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What was the entirety of such talks with Brooklyn? Saying we called about Dinwiddie and they asked about Collins doesn't mean squat. (When ALL reports suggest EVERY team was told NO on Collins trades).

 

You are assuming that was a deal we were going to do. I am telling you we weren't getting fair value offers for him even then. How will that change, he's about to be a RFA. As Indy realized with Sabonis, if you want him at his peak value, trade him now or extend him.

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What? Which is it?

That's contradictory and our numbers without JC say we need offense.

Defense as well which he is garbage at as a PF. So what he is below average at it as a center, he can't stay out of foul trouble as a 5.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

Now I'm second guessing whether I have enough information to judge a Bridges deal.  Did 90% of 23 year olds averaging 8 points and 4 rebounds from the SF spot also make the HOF?

Bridges won't be a HOF but he will impact winning more.

13 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

A little note on John Collins. According to Basketball-Reference.com, only 11 players have averaged better than 19 points, 10 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks per game by their age-22 seasons. Five (Bob McAdoo, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O’Neal) are already in the Hall of Fame. Two (Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett) are about to be; two more (Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis) are perhaps on pace to join them. The 10th was Elton Brand, a no. 1 overall pick who was an absolute monster before tearing his Achilles tendon. The 11th is Collins. His value is plenty.

 

Great, this leads us to so many championships. A list full of two way players and.... John

[JTB]

I never said we need to trade or move on from trae or Collins (NOT saying anyone said I did) 

but I think this stuff about Collins is blowing up from the thread I made about needing to cover trae defensively which is still true! I could have said we need to cover both Trae and Collins but I left Collins off of that list with trae even though he isn’t a good defender just  like trae isnt...
 

While they are clearly both bad defenders at least for Collins he has already had some slight improvements defensively this year without a actual good starting defensive big man for much of the season at that!...we may be in for a surprise and see him take it up another notch now that we have capela and dedmon.

 

Collins is a bad defender but it’s not in the same mold of trae. With Collins you have to wait it out now and see it he can have crazy improvement on that end. Only guy I’m trading for Collins is JJJ at this point. With trae I think it’s stupid to wait out anything defensively with him! Better start scheming now to hide Trae .

Edited February 13, 2020 by JTB

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bridges won't be a HOF but he will impact winning more.

I can't give you the same comparison on impact of winning as with JC since Bridges hasn't missed much time but Phoenix continues to suck with him despite a more developed roster than we have.  I guess I'm not seeing a ton of difference between Bridges and Oubre and not seeing a big impact on winning from either of them.  Both are nice rotation pieces on a losing team.

[NBASupes]

Trae has more defensive potential. All his ass gotta do is play with passion and aggressiveness, use his awareness, watch more film and value possession by possession Basketball. 

John is hopeless like a penny with a hole in it at the 4 defensively. He can play the 5 though. I agree with that, he's not a bad defender there. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I can't give you the same comparison on impact of winning as with JC since Bridges hasn't missed much time but Phoenix continues to suck with him despite a more developed roster than we have.  I guess I'm not seeing a ton of difference between Bridges and Oubre and not seeing a big impact on winning from either of them.  Both are nice rotation pieces on a losing team.

Bridges with PHX = Wins

His WAR is a 3.1 

He's an impact guy. Both are bench guys long term anyway. 

I remember when I caught hell for saying I was done with Josh Smith in his 3rd season. Add John Collins to that list. I don't see it. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by NBASupes

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bridges won't be a HOF but he will impact winning more.

Great, this leads us to so many championships. A list full of two way players and.... John

That is the first time I've heard the Chuck Wagon described as a two-way player!  He and JC share their main strength on defense:  rebounding.

I do agree with you, though, that JC is not on the same level as any of those other guys.  But the fact that he is on the list at all and has dramatically impacted our winning % says to me that we have something of value that we shouldn't be looking to unload as a discount.  Harrell will be a 27  year old 6'7'' PF next season - i.e., at his absolute peak.  Just add him as a FA and have a strong frontcourt rotation.

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bridges with PHX = Wins

His WAR is a 3.1 

He's an impact guy. Both are bench guys long term anyway. 

I remember when I caught hell for saying I was done with Josh Smith in his 3rd season. Add John Collins to that list. I don't see it. 

Bridges with PHX = 41 wins and 96 losses

Even if you want to unload JC, you should be getting more out of this deal.

Bridges projects to have a lower WAR than JC over the next 5 years as well, FWIW.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

That is the first time I've heard the Chuck Wagon described as a two-way player!  He and JC share their main strength on defense:  rebounding.

I do agree with you, though, that JC is not on the same level as any of those other guys.  But the fact that he is on the list at all and has dramatically impacted our winning % says to me that we have something of value that we shouldn't be looking to unload as a discount.  Harrell will be a 27  year old 6'7'' PF next season - i.e., at his absolute peak.  Just add him as a FA and have a strong frontcourt rotation.

Chuck and John is night and day different. Chuck is offensively closer to Trae in terms of impact. John is closer to Jabari Parker. That's like convincing me if we can win with KAT and Trae

 Hell yeah! That's KAT and Trae

Edited February 13, 2020 by NBASupes

[JTB]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae has more defensive potential. All his ass gotta do is play with passion and aggressiveness, use his awareness, watch more film and value possession by possession Basketball. 

John is hopeless like a penny with a hole in it at the 4 defensively. He can play the 5 though. I agree with that, he's not a bad defender there. 

Trae can play with more passion and aggressiveness and his weak ass still won’t get over screens. I can screen trae with this eras Isaiah Thomas and he won’t get over it.

all Collins got to do is put a lot more effort in his defense and if he gets beat off the dribble he has a cleanup man behind him in capela. Every 4 isn’t going to take Collins off the dribble though, he just Need to play up on these guys and really get in their face. Collins worries about the rim protection a lot so he’s always more geared to get a block at the goal rather than contesting a shot

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

Trae can play with more passion and aggressiveness and his weak ass still won’t get over screens. I can screen trae with this eras Isaiah Thomas and he won’t get over it.

all Collins got to do is put a lot more effort in his defense and if he gets beat off the dribble he has a cleanup man behind him in capela. Every 4 isn’t going to take Collins off the dribble though, he just Need to play up on these guys and really get in their face. Collins worries about the rim protection a lot so he’s always more geared to get a block at the goal rather than contesting a shot

Collins plays with a lot of effort. He lacks lateral quickness, length and strength for his position at the 4 defensively. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bridges with PHX = Wins

His WAR is a 3.1 

He's an impact guy. Both are bench guys long term anyway. 

I remember when I caught hell for saying I was done with Josh Smith in his 3rd season. Add John Collins to that list. I don't see it. 

You shittin' me...right....what Wins in Phoenix???? 19 wins last year? 22 so far this year. 7 more wins than the Hawks???

Josh was a stupid player. 

John is a bad defender.

Big difference between the two.