Half the season behind us, what FA targets are you most hoping on Schlenk's radar?

[AHF]

FiveThirtyEight WAR Projections

Bridges

20/21- 21/22 - 22/23 - 24/25 - 25/26

4.5

4.5

4.2

4.0

3.8

 

Collins

20/21- 21/22 - 22/23 - 24/25 - 25/26

5.1

5.6

5.4

4.6

4.2

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

John is closer to Jabari Parker. 

Now you are just being insulting for no reason.

[JTB]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Collins plays with a lot of effort. He lacks lateral quickness, length and strength for his position at the 4 defensively. 

I don’t feel like Collins is playing with all out effort defensively I just don’t.

now he do lack those other things defensively but i still want him to play up more on opposing 4s rather than giving them space.

i disagree only about the strength. There are some 4s stronger than him but not all.

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Now you are just being insulting for no reason.

I don’t think he is based on what we’ve seen. The only thing collins has shown us that he’s really for sure better at than Jabari is blocking shots at the goal so I don’t think Supes is hating on that front that these two are comparable 

but what I do disagree with supes is about Collins effort! JC is NOT giving full effort on defense! I don’t see how anyone can think he is.

the only bigs we having trying defensively every play is dedmon who just got back and Bruno who’s been trying all season long but just fouls too much ...but Collins ...defense effort??...nah 

collins is just looking for blocks on many defensive possessions that’s about it

Edited February 13, 2020 by JTB

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You shittin' me...right....what Wins in Phoenix???? 19 wins last year? 22 so far this year. 7 more wins than the Hawks???

Josh was a stupid player. 

John is a bad defender.

Big difference between the two.

At that time the board was as high on Smith as they are right now with John. We don't have expectations right now so people are hopeful of growth 

[Buzzard]

42 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bridges with PHX = Wins

His WAR is a 3.1 

He's an impact guy. Both are bench guys long term anyway. 

I remember when I caught hell for saying I was done with Josh Smith in his 3rd season. Add John Collins to that list. I don't see it. 

I also jumped off the Smoove bandwagon pretty early. My reason was simple, I don't like inefficient players at any position and I grew tired of his threes. Collins is not Smoove!

Since 12/23 the Suns have won 11 of 26 games.

Since Collins return on 12/23 the Hawks have won 9 of 26 games.

Now we have a actual starting caliber Center and things look even better for us. I just do not see how you think the Suns are that much better than us.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Buzzard

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I also jumped off the Smoove bandwagon pretty early. My reason was simple, I don't like inefficient players at any position and I grew tired of his threes. Collins is not Smoove!

Smoove was self-destructive with his incessant need to shoot low % jumpers.  It made it impossible for him to efficient on offense and made it tough to fit him into any team structure.  JC doesn't carry the same issues.  Given his lack of a need to have the ball in his hands to be effective, he can be an easy fit on just about any roster.  He does need to improve his D and I'd like to see him develop the ability to make some plays on offense with the ball in his hand but I don't see the Smoove parallel.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Smoove was self-destructive with his incessant need to shoot low % jumpers.  It made it impossible for him to efficient on offense and made it tough to fit him into any team structure.  JC doesn't carry the same issues.  Given his lack of a need to have the ball in his hands to be effective, he can be an easy fit on just about any roster.  He does need to improve his D and I'd like to see him develop the ability to make some plays on offense with the ball in his hand but I don't see the Smoove parallel.

The question is, do you max out a guy who is so dependent upon his teammates for his offense and isn't a stopper on defense?

[HawkItus]

Riley Johnston

 

@MSD_RaJohnston

·

6h

 

I’m not sure folks realize how good John Collins has been this season. He’s one of five players averaging 20 and 10 in the NBA (Giannis, Towns, Embiid, and Jokic). He’s 2 years younger than anybody else on the list.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

FiveThirtyEight WAR Projections

Bridges

20/21- 21/22 - 22/23 - 24/25 - 25/26

4.5

4.5

4.2

4.0

3.8

 

Collins

20/21- 21/22 - 22/23 - 24/25 - 25/26

5.1

5.6

5.4

4.6

4.2

Bridges is on track to surpass his expectations. Collins is not and he's not even close.

[Buzzard]

22 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The question is, do you max out a guy who is so dependent upon his teammates for his offense and isn't a stopper on defense?

I am sure there are 3 - 6 teams that would love to have Collins playing alongside their PG and Center. There is a good reason a couple of GM's asked about Collins. Everyone in the league knows his contract will be up soon and they will have to pay him.

He is only 22 and has 2 - 4 more years of growing. When he is 25 and putting up 23-25 and 10, we are going to look back on this thread and wonder what the hell were some people thinking.

22 years old and already putting up a valid per 36 of 23..0, 11.4, and 1.8. I guarantee you several teams would send their top 5-10 pick and filler to get him. They would be laughing all the way to the bank with the heist they just pulled off.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Buzzard

[AHF]

28 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The question is, do you max out a guy who is so dependent upon his teammates for his offense and isn't a stopper on defense?

He isn't a stopper on defense but I don't think he is super dependent on his teammates for offense.  He gets his offense without plays being run for him for the most part.  He is well suited to participate on both the PNR and the PNP (particularly the former) which are classic plays that will work into the foreseeable future.  He gets enough of his offense on "garbage" sorts of plays - just cutting to the basket or getting an offensive rebound, etc. that I think he will get a significant portion of his offense regardless of teammates.  

To illustrate this, take a look at his last two games without Trae Young.  He scored 33 and 30 points in those outings.  

 

[KB21]

12 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I am sure there are 3 - 6 teams that would love to have Collins playing alongside their PG and Center. There is a good reason a couple of GM's asked about Collins. Everyone in the league knows his contract will be up soon and they will have to pay him.

He is only 22 and has 2 - 4 more years of growing. When he is 25 and putting up 23-25 and 10, we are going to look back on this thread and wonder what the hell were some people thinking.

22 years old and already putting up a valid per 36 of 23..0, 11.4, and 1.8. I guarantee you several teams would send their top 5-10 pick and filler to get him. They would be laughing all the way to the bank with the heist they just pulled off.

There will be an opportunity cost at some point with him, and there is a line that I'm not sure I would go above.  However, if I knew I could get someone like JJJ in a deal for Collins, I'd do it.  I wouldn't do Collins for Bridges, though I would definitely trade our 2020 pick for Bridges if the Suns want to add another young guy.  

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He isn't a stopper on defense but I don't think he is super dependent on his teammates for offense.  He gets his offense without plays being run for him for the most part.  He is well suited to participate on both the PNR and the PNP (particularly the former) which are classic plays that will work into the foreseeable future.  He gets enough of his offense on "garbage" sorts of plays - just cutting to the basket or getting an offensive rebound, etc. that I think he will get a significant portion of his offense regardless of teammates.  

To illustrate this, take a look at his last two games without Trae Young.  He scored 33 and 30 points in those outings.  

 

He was asked to take on more of a role and he took on more of a role. When I said previously the coach needs to get their roles right, this is part of the problem. Collins cannot disappear for whole quarters and I think a lot of that is on LP. When the threes are not falling,, get Collins engaged for two or three straight possessions.

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

There will be an opportunity cost at some point with him, and there is a line that I'm not sure I would go above.  However, if I knew I could get someone like JJJ in a deal for Collins, I'd do it.  I wouldn't do Collins for Bridges, though I would definitely trade our 2020 pick for Bridges if the Suns want to add another young guy.  

The difference between JJJ and Bridges is night and day. Bridges for Collins is just a knee jerk reaction in my opinion.

[AHF]

35 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There will be an opportunity cost at some point with him, and there is a line that I'm not sure I would go above.  However, if I knew I could get someone like JJJ in a deal for Collins, I'd do it.  I wouldn't do Collins for Bridges, though I would definitely trade our 2020 pick for Bridges if the Suns want to add another young guy.  

This doesn't hurt my head.  

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I am sure there are 3 - 6 teams that would love to have Collins playing alongside their PG and Center. There is a good reason a couple of GM's asked about Collins. Everyone in the league knows his contract will be up soon and they will have to pay him.

He is only 22 and has 2 - 4 more years of growing. When he is 25 and putting up 23-25 and 10, we are going to look back on this thread and wonder what the hell were some people thinking.

22 years old and already putting up a valid per 36 of 23..0, 11.4, and 1.8. I guarantee you several teams would send their top 5-10 pick and filler to get him. They would be laughing all the way to the bank with the heist they just pulled off.

Collins would be great if you are Utah or teams where everyone starting is defensive minded or two way. But for us, I don't see it. For most teams, I think he would be a 6th man. I am pretty sure if you look at Smoove stats for his age, that was impressive too. 

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Collins would be great if you are Utah or teams where everyone starting is defensive minded or two way. But for us, I don't see it. For most teams, I think he would be a 6th man. I am pretty sure if you look at Smoove stats for his age, that was impressive too. 

You are seriously over reacting in this thread.  

It makes no sense to trade a 22 year old 20 -10 power forward for pennies on the dollar.  NONE.

Defense can be learned.  Collins is the least of my worries about this team and its future.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You are seriously over reacting in this thread.  

It makes no sense to trade a 22 year old 20 -10 power forward for pennies on the dollar.  NONE.

Defense can be learned.  Collins is the least of my worries about this team and its future.

He's not that good. He's simply not but I remember catching hell for going v Smoove then years later, everyone had the same opinions and some.

I actually became more of an advocate for Smoove down the road like he's not that good but he's better than that. 

Defense is not easy to learn or Jabari wouldn't be one on his 3 or 4th team in 2 years.

Edited February 14, 2020 by NBASupes

[High5]

Josh Smith is perhaps the most criticized player in the history of Hawksquawk. (at least top 3) I don’t know why you’re acting like you were the only person who recognized his flaws.