Coronavirus!

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Man.  Mods can we do something about this guy?   I shouldn't have to put up with this i'm a white male.....basically.

(this is a joke btw)

funny thing is I didn’t say anything. I just named a player:

ENOUGH WHITE! 
 

I might get a #4 Spurs jersey no lie  

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

The article is advocating people not take efforts that objectively make others safer.  The n an article is from a very suspect source and it compounds this issue when it shares zero data to back up its claim.  

People have died in this country because other didn't take reasonable steps to mitigate the spread of this illness.

It isn't intended to be an attack on you at all.  I know you well enough from this site that you don't post things in bad faith trying to push misinformation or bad sources.  I also know that you are scrupulous on ensuring social distancing which is a huge step toward protecting yourself and your family as well as others in the community.

I apologize if I come off emotional on this but it does make me emotional.  I nearly lost a family member last week so this hits home.  I know if I shrugged my shoulders and decided not to wear a mask or social distance or wash my hands, etc. so that it ended up being my failure to follow this type of basic step that killed someone else I'm not sure I could live with myself. 

And this has absolutely happened to people.  And it doesn't need to happen nearly so often if people take basic steps to protect their fellow Americans. 

But there is always a cause and effect for things. It is very rational, not only from the eye-test but from the numerous interviews on it that show that when people put on masks, they feel safer and therefore let their guard down. I mean it is quoting the head of the country's 

 

2 hours ago, High5 said:

That's such a ridiculous argument. It's like saying people shouldn't wear seatbelts or else they'll start driving like they're in a Fast and Furious movie. 

Actually there are studies about people driving differently who know they have airbags and antilock brakes.

[AHF]

Just now, thecampster said:

But there is always a cause and effect for things. It is very rational, not only from the eye-test but from the numerous interviews on it that show that when people put on masks, they feel safer and therefore let their guard down. I mean it is quoting the head of the country's 

 

Actually there are studies about people driving differently who know they have airbags and antilock brakes.

It is equally rationale to think that engaging in other behaviors like washing your hands would lead to a greater sense of security and relaxed discipline.  It is also equally obvious about the net benefits of seat belts, airbags and the like.  

Anything encouraging people to disregard effective safety measures should be driven by data, IMO.  Proper usage of masks are very effective.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

It is equally rationale to think that engaging in other behaviors like washing your hands would lead to a greater sense of security and relaxed discipline.  It is also equally obvious about the net benefits of seat belts, airbags and the like.  

Anything encouraging people to disregard effective safety measures should be driven by data, IMO.  Proper usage of masks are very effective.

 

[AHF]

Let's not pretend like using a mask is complicated.  Entire countries do this very effectively.  Americans are not so mentally deficient that they can't accomplish this.

It is the cultural and political slant that is the problem, not the complexity.

[macdaddy]

I think part of the reason that there's this sometimes violent anti-mask sentiment is that people have doubted that the virus a big problem.  Or at least subconsciously that's the issue.  But i really think that's changing.   In March/April I personally knew a total of 1 person who had it.  In the last month it's probably 10-15 friends/acquaintances.   

I think it's crazy that there is this total distrust of scientist/media etc. and i wish some folks had a more rational view about certain things but at this point it is what it is.   I'm sad it takes some being personally affected to take it more seriously but i feel like we are getting closer to a point where just maybe there will be more of a collective will to try to tamp this down through behavior changes.   We'll see.   

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I think it's crazy that there is this total distrust of scientist/media etc. 

This has been a building issue for years.  Like you don't want a trained pilot flying the plane or a doctor doing your surgery.  The notion that lay people should just ignore the experts is very damaging to the country.  Not that intelligent peer review and similar validation efforts aren't important - to the contrary they should be part of the expected process for scientific publications - but people have substituted political talking points over expert analysis with uncomfortable frequency.  

[MaceCase]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Enough WHITE! Not talking about you just love Derrick White’s message of:

 

ENOUGH

 

White

 

I chuckled at Sap’s

Vote

4

Millsap 

jersey set up.  Saw it the other night saying “oh now everybody is running for President?”

[Spud2nique]

5 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Vote

4

Millsap 

I’ve been saying that since 2013! I love Sap!

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

I chuckled at Sap’s

Vote

4

Millsap 

jersey set up.  Saw it the other night saying “oh now everybody is running for President?”

Ps lw3’s mind is exploding with name possibilities Game threads  

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I think part of the reason that there's this sometimes violent anti-mask sentiment is that people have doubted that the virus a big problem.  Or at least subconsciously that's the issue.  But i really think that's changing.   In March/April I personally knew a total of 1 person who had it.  In the last month it's probably 10-15 friends/acquaintances.   

I think it's crazy that there is this total distrust of scientist/media etc. and i wish some folks had a more rational view about certain things but at this point it is what it is.   I'm sad it takes some being personally affected to take it more seriously but i feel like we are getting closer to a point where just maybe there will be more of a collective will to try to tamp this down through behavior changes.   We'll see.   

Blame the news and politicians.  They’ve built a system where they can’t just report or do anything without adding a slant so that creates an entire environment of mistrust.  

Nothing can ever just be universally accepted as “good”.  Instead of either side saying  congrats, you got that point on the board but don’t worry we’ll put up points too, we get that point trying to be erased completely or slanted as entirely negative.  And if they all fail collectively and do something “bad”, well that’s when the finger pointing and blame shifts happen.

[thecampster]

15 hours ago, MaceCase said:

Blame the news and politicians.  They’ve built a system where they can’t just report or do anything without adding a slant so that creates an entire environment of mistrust.  

Nothing can ever just be universally accepted as “good”.  Instead of either side saying  congrats, you got that point on the board but don’t worry we’ll put up points too, we get that point trying to be erased completely or slanted as entirely negative.  And if they all fail collectively and do something “bad”, well that’s when the finger pointing and blame shifts happen.

*** THIS!!!  ***

[thecampster]

17 hours ago, AHF said:

This has been a building issue for years.  Like you don't want a trained pilot flying the plane or a doctor doing your surgery.  The notion that lay people should just ignore the experts is very damaging to the country.  Not that intelligent peer review and similar validation efforts aren't important - to the contrary they should be part of the expected process for scientific publications - but people have substituted political talking points over expert analysis with uncomfortable frequency.  

 Very curious. This is not a gotcha or anything.  Have you spent much time in fundamentalist  or apocalyptic churches?

 

If you spend much time in them, you hear a great deal about the final days. About how the government, media, entertainment are all wings of the devil. Preachers will hammer how "the elect" will be tortured and thrown in prison, even killed in the last days for their belief. They are told that great tragedies will befall mankind and the beast will use those tragedies to usher in his one world order. Parishioners are taught to distrust the media, the world, politicians. Its only one part of the puzzle but if you haven't, you should really get a glimpse into that world. Step into a 2 hour sermon that pushes the narrative that Satan (the adversary) is in everything. Imagine this is what you are fed every Wednesday evening service and twice a day on Sunday for 20 years.  Then along comes a concerted government effort to strip away what you perceive to be your religious liberties (baking wedding cakes as you choose for example) and its followed by mandates to wear masks (comply or else). You've been taught to look for the signs until you start seeing them in every day life...even your kids cartoons or PokemonGo and then someone starts a brainwashing campaign to have you sing songs while you wash your hands. you've been told you'll have to receive a mark on your hand or forehead in order to survive and then someone starts telling you that you can't shop without a mask on and that sounds eerily similar to you.

Imagine you are that parishioner who has staked their soul on that belief system. You've given 10% of your income for 20 years to that church. You've broken bread with them hundreds of times. Your best friends are part of the congregation. You all sit together on Sunday and the pastor starts ripping on masks. That's a hard red pill to swallow to break free from 20 years of being told to watch out for something just like this.

and it isn't just religious folks. it's bikers, people yelling free bird. It's white nationalists, its anti-government types, civil libertarians. All with their own years of belonging to an order that is anti government, pro rebellion.

It isn't as simple as climbing on board a plane without a licensed pilot. It is years of belief systems being challenged. If you want to understand the crazy mindset, you have to engage in some crazy person empathy. I try not to be too judgmental. Not with you or Mac on one side or people on the far other side. Its easier to change a thing when you understand a thing.

 

FYI, multiple trips to the store and I still haven't gotten used to the mask. I'm seriously questioning if my breath has always been that hot.

 

[macdaddy]

31 minutes ago, thecampster said:

FYI, multiple trips to the store and I still haven't gotten used to the mask. I'm seriously questioning if my breath has always been that hot.

Right?  I've gotten used to it.  Just got to make sure to brush regularly!

On your other point, what you are describing is now magnified.   In the past if you lived in a community where everyone believed a certain way then you accept that as truth.  Now with the internet people find thousands of other people around the world who think the earth is flat, politicians are pedophiles, celebrities eat babies or whatever and they think there must be truth to it if thousands of people believe it.  But it goes back to the fact that we really can't comprehend how many people 5 million is, 350 million, let alone 7 billion.  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

 Very curious. This is not a gotcha or anything.  Have you spent much time in fundamentalist  or apocalyptic churches?

 

If you spend much time in them, you hear a great deal about the final days. About how the government, media, entertainment are all wings of the devil. Preachers will hammer how "the elect" will be tortured and thrown in prison, even killed in the last days for their belief. They are told that great tragedies will befall mankind and the beast will use those tragedies to usher in his one world order. Parishioners are taught to distrust the media, the world, politicians. Its only one part of the puzzle but if you haven't, you should really get a glimpse into that world. Step into a 2 hour sermon that pushes the narrative that Satan (the adversary) is in everything. Imagine this is what you are fed every Wednesday evening service and twice a day on Sunday for 20 years.  Then along comes a concerted government effort to strip away what you perceive to be your religious liberties (baking wedding cakes as you choose for example) and its followed by mandates to wear masks (comply or else). You've been taught to look for the signs until you start seeing them in every day life...even your kids cartoons or PokemonGo and then someone starts a brainwashing campaign to have you sing songs while you wash your hands. you've been told you'll have to receive a mark on your hand or forehead in order to survive and then someone starts telling you that you can't shop without a mask on and that sounds eerily similar to you.

Imagine you are that parishioner who has staked their soul on that belief system. You've given 10% of your income for 20 years to that church. You've broken bread with them hundreds of times. Your best friends are part of the congregation. You all sit together on Sunday and the pastor starts ripping on masks. That's a hard red pill to swallow to break free from 20 years of being told to watch out for something just like this.

and it isn't just religious folks. it's bikers, people yelling free bird. It's white nationalists, its anti-government types, civil libertarians. All with their own years of belonging to an order that is anti government, pro rebellion.

It isn't as simple as climbing on board a plane without a licensed pilot. It is years of belief systems being challenged. If you want to understand the crazy mindset, you have to engage in some crazy person empathy. I try not to be too judgmental. Not with you or Mac on one side or people on the far other side. Its easier to change a thing when you understand a thing.

 

FYI, multiple trips to the store and I still haven't gotten used to the mask. I'm seriously questioning if my breath has always been that hot.

 

I have some experience in a fundamentalist church and completely agree with how you characterize that.  My issue is that this has expanded from a small niche to become increasingly mainstream.  This type of mindset...I'll just say it has a high potential for being dangerous.

[thecampster]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Right?  I've gotten used to it.  Just got to make sure to brush regularly!

On your other point, what you are describing is now magnified.   In the past if you lived in a community where everyone believed a certain way then you accept that as truth.  Now with the internet people find thousands of other people around the world who think the earth is flat, politicians are pedophiles, celebrities eat babies or whatever and they think there must be truth to it if thousands of people believe it.  But it goes back to the fact that we really can't comprehend how many people 5 million is, 350 million, let alone 7 billion.  

that's a really good point. These religious or group think communities are now just as virtual as real.

[AHF]

28 minutes ago, thecampster said:

that's a really good point. These religious or group think communities are now just as virtual as real.

That virtual community is how you end up with someone firing an assault rifle in a pizza restaurant with kids and parents because he has bought into the delusion that there is a giant child sex ring being run out of it.   That is lone gunman dangerous.  It only gets more dangerous from there as you go with group action.

What aren't you willing to sacrifice in the name of a greater dogma like fighting evil, Satan, etc.?

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

That virtual community is how you end up with someone firing an assault rifle in a pizza restaurant with kids and parents because he has bought into the delusion that there is a giant child sex ring being run out of it.   That is lone gunman dangerous.  It only gets more dangerous from there as you go with group action.

Movie, the Fisher King.

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Movie, the Fisher King.

And right now we have not just the cynical media shouters spouting this craziness but mainstream politicians promoting these theories and seeking to discredit the nation's experts and institutions.  You'll likely see some of these conspiracy people in Congress in the very near future charging to undermine our best resources for informed decision-making.

[thecampster]

33 minutes ago, AHF said:

And right now we have not just the cynical media shouters spouting this craziness but mainstream politicians promoting these theories and seeking to discredit the nation's experts and institutions.  You'll likely see some of these conspiracy people in Congress in the very near future charging to undermine our best resources for informed decision-making.

One thing I annoyingly repeat to anyone who will listen is there is no such thing right now as a Covid-19 expert. I think the best position to be in right now is humility and remembering there is still more we don't know than we do know.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/got-coronavirus-while-pregnant-months-181557384.html