Coronavirus!

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, Thomas said:

That comment is just indefensible, man...

To be perfectly accurate the comment was:

Quote

McEnany said: “The president has said unmistakably that he wants schools to open. And when he says open, he means open in full, kids been able to attend each and every day at their school.

"The science should not stand in the way of this,” she added, saying it is "perfectly safe" to fully reopen all classrooms. 

She later said she was simply saying people should follow the science and this would lead them to conclude that all schools should be re-opened in full.  In related comments, Pence said he did not want CDC guidelines to be a reason that school don't reopen in full.

The reality is that it is clear many schools cannot meet the recommendations from the CDC for schools which puts it in a position where those schools must disregard elements from those guidelines to reopen the way the White House wants.  The efficacy of that will be fact dependent based on the circumstances surrounding that community and the teachers and students who attend that school.

It isn't an easy issue.  Anecdotally, I've been talking to several teachers about the issue.  None of them believe the students can be responsible enough to social distance, etc. and none of their schools have the infrastructure to comply with the recommendations even if the students were perfect.  One is hoping that they either go all online or all in-person because it will otherwise result in him effectively having to do his normal in-person classes and then have to add online classes on top of that.  Another is feeling trapped between wanting to support her students and wanting to do what is best for the members of her household.  My wife is at a board meeting this morning reviewing protocols for a local school which will almost surely not meet the CDC recommendations.  It is a tough position for everyone involved.  

Employers have been through this already but are much better equipped on the whole to adapt their practices and PPE to meet CDC recommendations.  It is harder given the limited resources and facilities that schools employ as well as the problem of 'herding cats' trying to get students to comply.  We've already seen some red flags come out of summer camps where they took fairly extraordinary precautions and still ended up with 80 cases, etc.  It is just hard to try to get young people to take this stuff seriously when they believe they aren't personally at risk and they are biologically wired to not fully appreciate the consequences to others from their actions.

[macdaddy]

Hospitals are again starting to get stressed big time in GA.  Please be careful out there everyone.

[thecampster]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/smartphones-covid-19-transmission-know-far-090750256--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/smartphones-covid-19-transmission-know-far-090750256--abc-news-topstories.html

 

Sounds like the plot twist to a pandemic movie.  These phones do have to be filthy though.  I clean mine like once a year.  

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

clean mine like once a year.  

once a year???? How bout a wet wipe here n there?

[LucastheThird]

32 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I clean mine like once a year.  

@macdaddy I'm gonna need for you to do better than that sir. It should be at least once a week in normal circumstances. 

[macdaddy]

23 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

@macdaddy I'm gonna need for you to do better than that sir. It should be at least once a week in normal circumstances. 

i just trying to build up a tolerance to nasty bacteria!

[Thomas]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

For Kemp this is just the blatant attempt to look strong when he has looked weak the whole time and been the laughingstock of the world at times.  It's the equivalent of holding a shotgun and saying you're going to 'round up criminal illegals' in a campaign commercial.   So i guess it's not a surprise.  

The timing has a lot or everything to do with Trump being in the Atlanta zip code without a mask and of course the meeting between [them].

Edited out a bit of political commentary 

[Thomas]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

i just trying to build up a tolerance to nasty bacteria!

Might consider a courtesy flush every once in a while.

[High5]

The depth of our country's stupidity and selfishness with never cease to amaze me. 

 

[bleachkit]

I am in favor of opening schools. Data regarding children is quite encouraging. Hospitalizations are very rare, fatalities extremely rare. However, concessions and exemptions for older teachers is prudent and warranted. 

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I am in favor of opening schools. Data regarding children is quite encouraging. Hospitalizations are very rare, fatalities extremely rare. However, concessions and exemptions for older teachers is prudent and warranted. 

And concessions for children with chronic conditions.  And children with high risk family members.  And younger teachers with chronic conditions.  And at risk bus drivers.  And at risk lunch room staff.  And....

I am in favor of opening schools which can meet the recommended guidelines and are not in communities where they are shutting things down to try to slow down the spread.  For schools in spiking communities that are going to cram 30 kids in a classroom 2-3 feet apart from each other with masks optional, that seems like a throwing gas on a fire.

In a work environment, once you get a positive case you do contact tracing and isolate everyone exposed.  These workplaces that do a good job addressing the issue build in distancing between individuals within departments and segregation of departments, shifts, etc. so that a positive case can be isolated without necessitating the testing and isolation of the entire plant.  In many school environments, that would mean shutting down the entire school because contact tracing will have zero ability to put a fence around the issue given the intermingling of students and lack of inherent distancing in overcrowded facilities.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I am in favor of opening schools. Data regarding children is quite encouraging. Hospitalizations are very rare, fatalities extremely rare. However, concessions and exemptions for older teachers is prudent and warranted. 

If the US had done EVERYTHING in the power to crush the curve, it would have been in position to do so. But everything was bass ackward.

Quote

The reason European countries are reopening schools and parents are willing to send their kids is because most of those countries had flattened the curve on COVID-19 by May or June (our East Asian allies did so even earlier).

 

Quote

“A virus here is seen as a virus, not a political instrument,” Annunziata told me by phone from Capri, where she was finally getting a break from work as the virus threat diminished. “When Matteo Salvini [a right-wing populist touted as a future prime minister] tried not to mask in public, people made fun of him and said ‘put it on,’ even his supporters.”

Now, she says, the key to keeping the rate down is “check, chase, and catch,” meaning identifying any spike as soon as it appears, tracing all contacts, and isolating the sick. “People ask you everywhere you visit to sign in with your phone, for example in restaurants, entertainment, or ferries,” she explained, “so if anyone becomes infected they can track their contacts and see where the cluster is.”

That kind of testing and contact tracing regime requires coordination from top governmental levels down to state and localities. This has yet to emerge in any systematic way in the United States. Instead, President Trump confuses the sheer numbers of U.S. tests with an effective testing strategy that would keep infections down by tracing outbreaks and limiting their spread. The lack of such a U.S. strategy, at the top or at state levels, makes it almost impossible to contain the virus.

I heard a similar story about Germany’s reopening from Anna Sauerbrey, deputy editor in chief of the Berlin daily Der Tagesspiegel. Germany is one of Europe’s premier pandemic success stories, with roughly 9,000 deaths in a population of 83 million.

Businesses (which were never fully locked down) are open, while most people still mask in markets, shops, and public transportation. Schools have partly reopened and are mostly operating in shifts in order to allow more space for social distancing. Germany’s federal states are waiting to see whether infection rates rise over summer break before making final plans for reopening.

There were three key elements to Germany’s success, Sauerbrey told me: the country’s early reaction to the virus, its strong health system, and an immediate resort to intensive and widely available testing – along with contact tracing. “Once it spreads as in the United States it is very hard to control,” she correctly noted.

But equally critical for virus control and reopening society was the leadership of Chancellor Angela Merkel, she said. “Merkel brought together the heads of the 16 federal states [from different political parties], who have the power to shut schools and public transport, and got them to agree on a few rules. So it was easy for German citizens to understand how to behave, because there were the same rules everywhere.”

In other words, once Germany, Italy, and other European states have crushed the curve, they are in position to reopen and cope with new spikes by testing, tracing, and isolating. We all know what needs to be done.

Tragically, we can’t imitate what our European allies have done so long as we have a president who pretends the disease will disappear by itself.

Americans aren't willing to adjust their behaviour for the greater good. Seatbelts, helmets (motorcycles) Cigarette smoking in public - all instituted for the greater good but a mask can't be. 

[JayBirdHawk]

. I can so see this!

 

[Spud2nique]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

. I can so see this!

 

That’s funny and scary! I actually ran away from some kids earlier today. They came into a convenient store without a mask like 6 of them standing behind me while I’m trying to pay, within 6 feet mind you. The lady at the register didn’t say anything to them even though she looked panicked. I paid and ran  

 

It’s weird you can’t really say anything to kids, and that kinda stinks imo. I dunno  

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If the US had done EVERYTHING in the power to crush the curve, it would have been in position to do so. But everything was bass ackward.

 

Americans aren't willing to adjust their behaviour for the greater good. Seatbelts, helmets (motorcycles) Cigarette smoking in public - all instituted for the greater good but a mask can't be. 

I work with a lot of Germans and it is no joke that all things are not equal between what they have done and what we have done.  Introducing lots of interaction into the US system is not the same as the German system.  It is the reason that places like Houston have reversed on reopening things after the upsurge in cases.  What you can do when you have so much spreading is different than what you can do when things are stable.  

If you take the total number of cases that Germany has had in April, May, June and July combined it is less than the number of cases we had just yesterday.  The last time we had less than 18,000 new cases in a day was March 26.  The last time Germany had as many as 1,800 cases was April 24.

We had 73,388 new cases yesterday.  Germany had 584.

Even after accounting for the difference in overall population (we have roughly 4x their population), these situations aren't close to comparable.

[thecampster]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

I am in favor of opening schools. Data regarding children is quite encouraging. Hospitalizations are very rare, fatalities extremely rare. However, concessions and exemptions for older teachers is prudent and warranted. 

My public high school had 1500 students. There were typically 25 children per class. The AP class kids were mostly in classes together, but most kids had 15-20 differing kids in each class. So in a 6 class schedule day, 1 infected kid can come in contact with 90 to 120 other kids. This is not including the hallways, bathrooms or water fountains. 1 infected child could personally infect 100 to 200 people in one day. It isn't about the kids becoming infected. It's about them then taking that infection home to their families. A week of one infected student who isn't showing systems in the present of 1500, is a branch to 1500 other families in record time. There is no reason for these kids to be in school. There are other options.

 

 

As a parent, I want the final say of whether or not to expose my kid to a deadly virus....period!

 

The best answer I've heard on this, is a year without school. Delay school by 1 year for all school age kids this year. It gives school districts the chance to all get on the same schedule for year long school with more short breaks.

[bleachkit]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

And concessions for children with chronic conditions.  And children with high risk family members.  And younger teachers with chronic conditions.  And at risk bus drivers.  And at risk lunch room staff.  And....

I am in favor of opening schools which can meet the recommended guidelines and are not in communities where they are shutting things down to try to slow down the spread.  For schools in spiking communities that are going to cram 30 kids in a classroom 2-3 feet apart from each other with masks optional, that seems like a throwing gas on a fire.

In a work environment, once you get a positive case you do contact tracing and isolate everyone exposed.  These workplaces that do a good job addressing the issue build in distancing between individuals within departments and segregation of departments, shifts, etc. so that a positive case can be isolated without necessitating the testing and isolation of the entire plant.  In many school environments, that would mean shutting down the entire school because contact tracing will have zero ability to put a fence around the issue given the intermingling of students and lack of inherent distancing in overcrowded facilities.

Ok, what if things don't better? What if a viable vaccine doesn't emerge? So no school in 2021 as well? I just feel like as some point life has to go on. 

[bleachkit]

Why is it so hard to get reliable Covid-19 data? 

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death

[High5]

56 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

 I just feel like as some point life has to go on. 

You say that like we gave it a great effort and it just didn't work out. We've done less to slow the spread than basically every other country. Not only are people refusing to help themselves and others, but they're actively fighting safety measures. It's insanity.