Hawks DID SIGN BB (Bogdan Bogdanović) 4 years $72 million. (UPDATE)

[AHF]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

If you ignore good play but spam the board on poor play, no one takes you seriously.

 

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Y'all said the same thing about Cam during his rookie season and now half y'all ready to trade him.

First, please name the posters who want to trade Cam.  If you can name half the board, I'll give you control of my avatar for the next year and you can trust my word that I will in fact do it when I say it.  

 

Second, it is hard to take the posts on this topic that ignore his career to date and his good play seriously.  If someone wants to be a harsh critic, they need to man up and be part of the discussion when the player they criticize is playing well as well as when that player is struggling.  To do otherwise is akin to making a bet, losing the bet and reneging on the bet.  

You have to be there for the good and bad if you want to be intellectually honest.

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

.... and you can trust my word that I will in fact do it when I say it.  

.

.

To do otherwise is akin to making a bet, losing the bet and reneging on the bet.  

Ooh, there's some substance here.

This would make a good welch's grape juice commercial.

[AHF]

22 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

@AHF would quote me Cam's 2nd half stats all of the time and when I pushed back sighting small sample size, he would double down.

I never ran and hid when Cam struggled and I never claimed we had a sufficient sample size for Cam to draw definitive conclusions coming out of his rookie year.  Before Cam's second season, I gave my thoughts on why I believed his 2nd half stats were more indicative of the level of play that we could expect from him going forward and why that made me think that starting him coming into his second year was a good idea.  His defense remained a huge plus last year but as far as his shooting he definitely disappointed during the regular season and excited during the post-season.  I won't tell you I can predict with any certainty what we should expect from him in terms of shooting %s next year but I do remain very high on his overall potential and I am excited to see him play.  I still have hope that he will end up being our starting SG when his game reaches maturity. If he ends up being a bust, I won't run and hide and will admit I was wrong on him.

Trying to compare my posts about Reddish with yours about Bogi is a huge false equivalency.

Please quote my actual posts that you think are equivalent to yours if you want to compare them.

[hazer]

[Peoriabird]

20 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

First, please name the posters who want to trade Cam.  If you can name half the board, I'll give you control of my avatar for the next year and you can trust my word that I will in fact do it when I say it.  

 

 

Oh...Here is one

It's almost written...

Our next move will be Gallo + Bogo, Cam, Hunter, or Huerter or a combo for a Star Player... Somebody that has been to an allstar game. 

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Oh...Here is one

It's almost written...

Our next move will be Gallo + Bogo, Cam, Hunter, or Huerter or a combo for a Star Player... Somebody that has been to an allstar game. 

Please list the posters and lets see how close we get to the half the board.   Even if you had 10 posters who all said they hate Cam and would trade him for a bag of chips would leave you woefully short of half the board. 

On top of that, the post you are referencing above doesn't even single out Reddish but lists him among Bogi, Hunter and Huerter so that is clearly not someone focused on trading Cam and more someone who thinks we should make a move for a more proven star using one of our wings.

The vast majority of posters on this board have reacted in horror to almost every Cam trade proposal over the last year.

 

6 minutes ago, hazer said:

My goal isn't to fight but just to set the record straight when someone is criticizing an Atlanta Hawk in a disingenuous way.  Not going to sit there if someone is claiming Bogi or Cam or Hunter, etc. weren't hurt when they obviously were.  Not going to stomach someone citing a player's stats while injured as if they represent the true version of that player while simultaneously ignoring the total season stats, the run of play that carried us into the playoffs last season (which included great play from several Hawks), and that player's career numbers.

If someone thinks that only a subset of the data is meaningful, then I'm fine to listen to the reasons why only those games should count but I'll certainly give my $.02 as to whether that is the best way to slice the data.  For me, anytime you only look at a player's injured play or you look at a very small subset of games when the larger data paints a much more positive picture that is always going to get a raised eyebrow and a post detailing the larger context if I don't agree that this subset of information is really the only meaningful data.  

The only argument I can see for focusing on the games that Peo has chosen to make the exclusive focus of his posts about Bogi is if you believe that Bogi will be similarly injured all the time going forward.  If that is the case, then it makes sense to focus on those numbers.   We've certainly seen players who were changed after significant injuries that they were unable to shake.  But I've not seen anything in the diagnosis around Bogi's knee that indicates this is such a situation.  Consequently, in my mind his career stats remain a good baseline for his floor (he is in a much better situation in Atlanta to put up better shooting %s given the attention on the floor to his teammates and Trae's ability to set him up) and his stats for the entirety of last season probably a good proxy for his reasonable best case scenario (I just don't think he can keep up over a full season the pace he set during his healthy  period last year).

[Peoriabird]

23 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

The only argument I can see for focusing on the games that Peo has chosen to make the exclusive focus of his posts about Bogi is if you believe that Bogi will be similarly injured all the time going forward.  If that is the case, then it makes sense to focus on those numbers.   We've certainly seen players who were changed after significant injuries that they were unable to shake.  But I've not seen anything in the diagnosis around Bogi's knee that indicates this is such a situation.  Consequently, in my mind his career stats remain a good baseline for his floor (he is in a much better situation in Atlanta to put up better shooting %s given the attention on the floor to his teammates and Trae's ability to set him up) and his stats for the entirety of last season probably a good proxy for his reasonable best case scenario (I just don't think he can keep up over a full season the pace he set during his healthy  period last year).

This whole thing started with me refuting an article stating that Bogie was in the conversation as one of the best shooting guards in the league something I pushed back on and something we both agreed that it was an exaggeration.  Bogie isn't that kind of player.  The only difference in our opinion is his role of a championship quality team.  You think he is a starter and I think he is Tim Hardaway JR.  who in my opinion is a very useful player no doubt but not a starter on a dynasty.  Cam is our dynasty starter because he offers so much more than a jump shot.  Same with Hunter.

[Gray Mule]

I have posted this:  "I would not trade Cam R. for Simmons - - even swap."

Count me as one who wants to keep Reddish!

Other than having said what I did, I'm out of this.  

Edited August 24, 2021 by Gray Mule

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

I have posted this:  "I would not trade Cam R. for Simmons - - even swap."

Count me as one who wants to keep Reddish!

Other than having said what I did, I'm out of this.  

Almost everyone on this site is very high on Reddish.  Peo knows this.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Almost everyone on this site is very high on Reddish.  Peo knows this.

Then why do they want him to back up Hunter and play fewer than 15 minutes per night when his best position is shooting guard.  Also most want Bogie to hang around to the end of his contract.  How is that being high on Cam if there is no path for him to contribute to the team over the next 3 years??? 

[AUhawksfan]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Then why do they want him to back up Hunter and play fewer than 15 minutes per night when his best position is shooting guard.  Also most want Bogie to hang around to the end of his contract.  How is that being high on Cam if there is no path for him to contribute to the team over the next 3 years??? 

Who is “they”?

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

Who is “they”?

Posters that start and respond to threads outline minutes distribution for the up coming season

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

Who is “they”?

Don't ever expect an answer to that. 

I'll use myself as an example since Peo criticizes me in this thread for both being overly high on Cam (by putting more emphasis on his second half numbers his rookie year in projecting his second year performance) and for being a hater (by assuming that Nate will continue to start Bogi after Bogi killed it for Nate when Nate took over last year).  I'd love to see Cam seize the starting SG role as soon as he is ready but I am not projecting that to happen for at least most of this season given the greater consistency on offense (and overall) from Bogi and Huerter to date.  In my mind, Cam clearly has both the most upside and the most development left to do among all our wings.  My hope for him is relatively modest this season compared to my view of his absolute ceiling:  I want to see him consistently giving positive contributions and shooting at least somewhat efficiently from the floor and everything beyond that is a fantastic win for the team.  I'd have to see my post but I probably projected Cam, Huerter and Reddish all within 3 mpg of each other or something very close to that with Bogi getting the most minutes.  I expect all to play major roles for the team this season.

[ATLHawks3]

23 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Posters that start and respond to threads outline minutes distribution for the up coming season

I'll respond to this. It's because he's been inconsistent as hell so far in his career. He needs to show consistent production before we can even consider to move Bogi to the bench. And I hope he gets there soon because outside of Trae, he has the highest potential on the team.

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

I'll respond to this. It's because he's been inconsistent as hell so far in his career. He needs to show consistent production before we can even consider to move Bogi to the bench. And I hope he gets there soon because outside of Trae, he has the highest potential on the team.

Then you can't possibly be high on a person that you think has something to prove which has been my point.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

welch's

I read @Wretch’s grape uhhh juice 

[Spud2nique]

Personally I love Bogi and his game. I slept on him when we signed him because I hadn’t watched too much of him as a King or Suns player. 
 

The things he does equate to winning basketball. He is a 5 tool guy (rebounding needs a bit of work) as well as an absolute dead eye shooter. 
 

I don’t know when we have to start paying people and there’s a chance that Bogi is attached to a deal involving Gallo or Capela or someone in the future, if that’s the case, I would pray and hope we get a guy that has as much “selfless” basketball in him as Bogi does.

 

Bogi is our brate. Chemistry wise he’s almost perfect for our team and combined with Trae.

[kg01]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I read @Wretch’s grape uhhh juice 

The Wretched One certainly has juice.

But I was totally referring to folks welchin' on bets they lose.  Then struttin' around actin' like it didn't happen.  smh

[aali34]

Good faith discussions can only happen if we display the same consistency in ourselves that we expect from others.

• That means answering replies if we want others to do that.
• Admitting we are wrong if we want others to do that.
• Understanding nuance if we want others to do that.

Also the difference between a critic and a hater is that you gotta give props when someone you're critical of is doing well. In my personal life, if I only hear from someone when I am struggling and it's to "criticize" me, I'm cutting them off. You gotta celebrate their success, otherwise it looks like you're praying for their downfall.

[ATLHawks3]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Then you can't possibly be high on a person that you think has something to prove which has been my point.

No. I am still very high on him, but I want him to actually prove he can be consistent instead of just handing him minutes just because. He has to earn it.