No Extension for John Collins

[ATLHawks3]

John has improved his game every year he's been in the league. You have to reward that level of growth, and bank on it continuing into the future. I wouldn't pay him the max but I'd pay his somewhere close to it. Something like 5/130 or 5/135.

[High5]

37 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

What the hell am I exaggerating? 

You say things like all he does is rim run, he doesn't do anything to help you win, coaches will never let him into the ASG, he only deserves 4/80, etc. 

I don't like the idea of paying him the max either, but he's a better player than you give him credit for. I still remember you thinking he wasn't starting caliber after his rookie year and you've been underrating him ever since.

[AHF]

40 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

To be fair, that's not the two options we're discussing here. We're comparing 3/90 with 4/80 or whatever Supes is suggesting. The latter is a no-brainer for JC.

If we let JC play out this year, TS will have a more exact number. I think Supes is low balling JC’s market value.  That 40% 3pt% will drive dollars if he can sustain it. If he doesn’t, his demands will likely get more realistic.

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, High5 said:

You say things like all he does is rim run, he doesn't do anything to help you win, coaches will never let him into the ASG, he only deserves 4/80, etc. 

I don't like the idea of paying him the max either, but he's a better player than you give him credit for. I still remember you thinking he wasn't starting caliber after his rookie year and you've been underrating him ever since.

I don't simplify him to just rim running. Although that is a big part of what he does. When people don't like what you are saying about someone they love, I notice they have a tendency to assume that person is harsher on their guy than they think.

4/80 is a lot of money and for a guy coming off of a rookie contract, it's a fantastic deal. It's not 4/30 million like he's a rotational player or 2/10. 4/80 is exactly what he has proved due to his productivity and consistency. 

He's not going to be voted in by fans. He's not going to be voted in by coaches. That's just reality chief. His style of play doesn't appeal to fans globally and his impact on versatility just doesn't move the needle for coaches, what's so hard about that statement to understand?

He's exactly the player I give him credit for.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

If we let JC play out this year, TS will have a more exact number. I think Supes is low balling JC’s market value.  That 40% 3pt% will drive dollars if he can sustain it. If he doesn’t, his demands will likely get more realistic.

His volume would have to take a major increase for that to be valid and shooting 26% on contested threes is very telling. He's also going to be a 4 so he should see more contested threes as well.

Let's not at his percentage is truthful like Bertans 

Edited November 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[kg01]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Stop taking these comparison as exacts. I am just saying, one dimensional bigs who can score and rebound while they offer limited versatility isn't where the NBA is going at the PF position. Jon Issac is more valuable on the open market than JC is.

Wrong.  Injuries matter

[marco102]

47 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His volume would have to take a major increase for that to be valid and shooting 26% on contested threes is very telling. He's also going to be a 4 so he should see more contested threes as well.

Let's not at his percentage is truthful like Bertans 

Let's compare him to one of the best shooters in the league.  This what we mean by you being hyperbolic.  I would LOVE for John to sign for 4 years $80 million.  Just saying he's way more efficient than the guys in that range and he's a better stretch four at this point when than they were Sabonis.

$5 years $130 is AAV of $27 million a year. I would give him that at a declining rate first year may be around $29 million and final year $21 million. 

That's a very fair deal.  It shows JC we care about him and allows us a ton of cap flexibility in his 5th year where we know way more about John's game. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Wrong.  Injuries matter

Of course, I should have said before his major ACL injury but yes injuries matter. Neither have been injuries free or trouble free players. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Let's compare him to one of the best shooters in the league.  This what we mean by you being hyperbolic.  I would LOVE for John to sign for 4 years $80 million.  Just saying he's way more efficient than the guys in that range and he's a better stretch four at this point when than they were Sabonis.

$5 years $130 is AAV of $27 million a year. I would give him that at a declining rate first year may be around $29 million and final year $21 million. 

That's a very fair deal.  It shows JC we care about him and allows us a ton of cap flexibility in his 5th year where we know way more about John's game. 

We only have two five year deals we can give out to the rookie deal guys. I am not giving JC one over Cam or DeAndre. Trae is clearly getting the other. 

27 million per is a massive overpay. He hasn't proven shit to get that type of money. If you overpay him to that type of deal, you project he will be a legit all star. I DON'T. I see him as a high end JAG. 

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We only have two five year deals we can give out to the rookie deal guys. I am not giving JC one over Cam or DeAndre. Trae is clearly getting the other. 

27 million per is a massive overpay. He hasn't proven shit to get that type of money. If you overpay him to that type of deal, you project he will be a legit all star. I DON'T. I see him as a high end JAG. 

No, you can't have more than two five year max extensions from rookie contracts.  I was reading that you can still have addtional 5 year extension from a rookie deal, but it can't be a max.

$7 million over what you're saying is not a MASSIVE overpay. It's a slight overpay, but you'll have to do that to get a declining contract.  

Edited November 26, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:07 PM, marco102 said:

No, you can't have more than two five year max extensions from rookie contracts.  I was reading that you can still have addtional 5 year extension from a rookie deal, but it can't be a max.

$7 million over what you're saying is not a MASSIVE overpay. It's a slight overpay, but you'll have to do that to get a declining contract.  

Yes, it is. When we resigned Bazemore, him at 10 million is a lot better than 17 million. JC at 20 million is over Sabonis and Turner. Its reasonable considering the cap is going up. 

27 million per year is shitty GMing based on projection and not anything tangible.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Yes, it is. When we resigned Bazemore, him at 10 million is a lot better than 17 million. JC at 20 million is over Sabonis and Turner. Its reasonable considering the cap is going up. 

27 million per year is shitty GMing. It's what I expect from fans. Thoughtless GMing based on projection and not anything tangible.

So now you insulting my intellegience.  I'm done with this bullshit Supes. If you can't have a conversation without acting like you freaking know more than everybody I'm done. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

 

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

27 million per year is shitty GMing. It's what I expect from fans. Thoughtless GMing based on projection and not anything tangible.

Seriously??? Thoughtless GMing?  You advocated paying Harrell $20 million a year.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

So now you insulting my intellegience.  I'm done with this bullshit Supes. If you can't have a conversation without acting like you freaking know more than everybody I'm done. 

You are taking this way too personal. JC don't know you. He don't care about you. He ain't gonna lend you no money when he signs that extension. You aren't Lyria or John Sr. Why are you taking this so personal? Get it grip my friend. By no means is it an insult to you that I think its foolish to pay JC what you think he should get.

39 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Seriously??? Thoughtless GMing?  You advocated paying Harrell $20 million a year.  

That was in comparison to JC and I also said Hayward would get 25 million and he got 30 million. If you want to point out my obvious misses, point out my makes. 

This is pointless, I think paying JC the type of money you guys are advocating for to be stupid as hell. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You are taking this way too personal. JC don't know you. He don't care about you. He ain't gonna lend you no money when he signs that extension. You aren't Lyria or John Sr. Why are you taking this so personal? Get it grip my friend. By no means is it an insult to you that I think its foolish to pay JC what you think he should get.

That was in comparison to JC and I also said Hayward would get 25 million and he got 30 million. If you want to point out my obvious misses, point out my makes. 

This is pointless, I think paying JC the type of money you guys are advocating for to be stupid as hell. 

No what I'm doing is taking your comment about my thoughts on his contract personally. I never once said that's some stupid ass shit you're saying supes, because i have some level of respect for everyone's opinion on here. I approach it by saying my thoughts and reasoning behind it.  That's not what you did, you took to saying, I'm doing some low level gming, which is exactly what all us fans do because we are not paid GMs by the way, but somehow your opinion is so superior to mine.  

I gave a reason behind my opinion on the contract. You could do the same but keep your insults to yourself. 

[JTB]

37 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Seriously??? Thoughtless GMing?  You advocated paying Harrell $20 million a year.  

Not going to lie I was with him about getting Trez here lol ....I honestly thought Trez market was 15-21 mil per season  especially when he won sixth man and considering he’s still a young player!

I don’t recall the last time we had a young middle 20s sixth man winner. Seems like it’s been Crawford or Lou every season the past 10 years.

Anyways...it’s funny how things actually played out because I am certain that most  on here were saying bad idea to pay two players at the same position big contracts and well here we are doing just that with Gallo & Collins (bigger contract for JC on its way) . Personally I think it’s ok to do it this way.

[NBASupes]

@marco102, if I saw you and you told me who you are or JC saw you and told you who he was, who would recognize you, him or me?

If the answer is me, you really need to understand, we are all here as fans and people with a mutual bond. JC don't owe you shit. He ain't gonna give you shit, he ain't even giving you Turkey today, let's not take this shit too seriously. We are all fans.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

@marco102, if I saw you and you told me who you are or JC saw you and told you who he was, who would recognize you, him or me?

If the answer is me, you really need to understand, we are all here as fans and people with a mutual bond. JC don't owe you shit. He ain't gonna give you shit, he ain't even giving you Turkey today, let's not take this shit too seriously. We are all fans.

Nah, what JC would owe me is respect as man and that's what you owe me too.  Again I can give two flying funks about what contract JC gets, but don't disrespect me when I haven't disrespected you.

Anyways, I'm done talking JC's contract and hijacking this thread. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by marco102

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No what I'm doing is taking your comment about my thoughts on his contract personally. I never once said that's some stupid ass shit you're saying supes, because i have some level of respect for everyone's opinion on here. I approach it by saying my thoughts and reasoning behind it.  That's not what you did, you took to saying, I'm doing some low level gming, which is exactly what all us fans do because we are not paid GMs by the way, but somehow your opinion is so superior to mine.  

I gave a reason behind my opinion on the contract. You could do the same but keep your insults to yourself. 

My thoughts on your contract thoughts aren't an indictment on you as a person. Good or bad, my thoughts on anyone here is not gonna shape how I see you as a person. 

Marco, I don't think your opinion is stupid. I simply dont agree with this logic and if you were a professional, I would completely be in disagreement with you but you aren't a professional. You aren't Travis. I am not Travis. You are a fan like me. This is just an opinion.

Low level GMing is paying players based on projection over production with impact. It what separates the best GMs from the worse GMs in this league. That's not an indictment to you, it's to Travis if he did some stupid shit as he's paid millions to do a tremendous job with a staff to aid him. The precedent has been set when Kevin gave Sabonis the 4/75 million dollar deal. Hield set the standard on what's a massive overpay. JC level has been set. Anything else is just fan chatter. 

Marco, you are like me. None of this shit we say matters. No one is paying us millions for our decision making. 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Nah, what JC would owe me is respect as man and that's what you owe me too.  Again I can give two flying funks about what contract JC gets, but don't disrespect me when I haven't disrespected you.

Anyways, I'm done talking JC's contract and hijacking this thread. 

I respect you marco and will always respect you as a human and as a man. My bad for making you feel otherwise. That wasn't my intention