2021-2022 Post/In- Between Game Thread: Thoughts, Updates, Tidbits etc.

[lethalweapon3]

Palate Cleanser Part Deux!

~lw3

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Your best ability is availability.. Unfortunately Hunter might be turning into one of those players we just cant count on as far as health is concerned.................This is another reason why he might be best suited coming off the bench.............Is this the same wrist he broke at UVA?  

Edited November 12, 2021 by terrell

[Sothron]

I'd love to see this guy a Hawk if the season doesn't turn itself around.

Paolo Banchero looks really good. I'd also love to see him on the Twolves to finally give them a PF that they haven't had since Love was traded.

[AHF]

18 hours ago, macdaddy said:

JC is my second favorite Hawk and maybe in my top 5 all time but i think it's a good question how much more we can go to him offensively.   Seems like most of his scoring, other than lobs, is open jumpers or posting up mismatches.   Could he be a high usage post scorer?   Or how would we get him more looks?

While I think he is not someone who is scalable indefinitely like a true shot creator (AI could shoot the ball every time up the court even if not particularly efficiently), it is obvious he can and should be getting more looks.

2018-19  16.4 FGA/36, 23.7% usage rate

2019-20  16.0 FGA/36, 22.7% usage rate

2020-21  15.0 FGA/36, 22.2% usage rate

2021-22  12.2 FGA/36,  17.7% usage rate

 

He is currently at a lower usage rate than his rookie year and way down from the past 3 seasons.  JC averaged 15 shots a game two years ago.  We need to get something much closer to that number out of him and the question really isn't whether he can do more than he is this year.  The key questions are (1) why isn't he shooting at his normal rate and (2) how much can he scale up beyond what he has already done?  The fact that both LP and Nate haven't run plays for him despite his amazing efficiency suggests they don't think he is scalable beyond a certain point but with the skills he has added every year I wouldn't rule it out that he can continue to do more - especially if the offense actually does something to facilitate that happening.

[JayBirdHawk]

The Atlanta Hawks offense is spinning its wheels

Quote

Watch any of the Hawks’ first 12 games this season and you’re likely to see an offense out of step with its personnel. A team built around Trae Young — already one of the best creators of 3-pointers and layups in NBA history — and a stable of shooters and secondary playmakers should not make scoring look arduous, yet this one seems almost incapable of generating easy shots. There’s a feeling of complacency to the way Atlanta runs its offense; where the league’s best scoring teams work for better shots, the Hawks tend to settle for mediocre ones.

Atlanta’s 15th-ranked offense hasn’t been as bad as its 27th-ranked defense, but it has looked equally disconnected, largely due to the team’s shot selection. Despite being one of the NBA’s best 3-point shooting teams, the Hawks currently own the 10th-worst effective field goal percentage in the league and the third-worst expected percentage based on their shot distribution. Their attempt rates from 3 and at the rim have declined significantly from last season, while their share of long mid-range attempts (between 14 feet and the 3-point line) has risen to the third-highest mark in the league. The Hawks are hitting less than 41 percent of those looks, most of which have come off the dribble.

 

That shot profile is consistent with previous Nate McMillan-led teams, but it doesn’t match the personnel on this roster. The Hawks have a handful of capable mid-range shooters, but none so prolific that they should actively hunt 20-foot jumpers early in the shot clock. The team’s perimeter players can all create with the ball in their hands to varying degrees, but that doesn’t mean every basket must be earned off the dribble. Bogdan Bogdanović, for instance, is a fine pull-up shooter, but shots like these actively leave points on the table:

 

Shot selection is often a product of ball movement, and the Hawks have yet to find a consistent passing groove that would set up easier looks. Rather than moving the ball along when possessions bog down, the default response to stalled plays is often just hoisting up a shot at the first available opportunity. Only the Mavericks make fewer passes per game than the Hawks, who also rank 22nd in points created via assist and fourth in shots taken after at least seven dribbles. That stagnation creates a vicious cycle in which players force shots because they can’t find them within the flow of the offense, which only makes it harder to create good looks within the flow of the offense.

 

Part of that falls upon McMillan, whose playbook often lacks diversity and creativity. Some of it is on Young, who has been cold from virtually everywhere on the floor and heavily affected by the league’s crackdown on foul-drawing. Clint Capela is shooting a career-low 59 percent at the rim and is clearly hampered by the Achilles’ soreness that kept him out of the preseason. Bogdanović is taking nearly four fewer 3-pointers per 100 possessions than he did a year ago, while Young and Kevin Huerter are both attempting 3s at the lowest rate of their careers.

And yet, for all of their individual and collective struggles, the Hawks have still scored efficiently with Young on the floor and will likely get even better once he and his teammates start hitting shots at their usual rates

The Long Two: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's improvement, Hawks' struggles (fansided.com)

[marco102]

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

I'd love to see this guy a Hawk if the season doesn't turn itself around.

Paolo Banchero looks really good. I'd also love to see him on the Twolves to finally give them a PF that they haven't had since Love was traded.

Unfortunately, the Hawks won't be getting him, but he does look like a stud.

[Spud2nique]

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

Paolo Banchero

Who is this Paolo you speak of?

[terrell]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The Atlanta Hawks offense is spinning its wheels

The Long Two: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's improvement, Hawks' struggles (fansided.com)

In other words....

I'm gonna shoot every time I touch the ball, because I wont touch it that often.....smh

And ya'll really think FA's are gonna want to come here just to stand in the corner watching Mini Harden dribble hoping he passes you the ball?

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by terrell

[terrell]

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32609564/stupefying-kevin-durant-sneaky-pet-moves-dallas-snazzy-passes-kuz

 

Depth can be a secret sauce in the regular-season. It fosters competition. But such competition -- and hovering contract situations -- can build stress that manifests in minor shot-chasing.

That could be infecting Reddish, jacking about four pull-up jumpers per game -- well above his career average.

Reddish has made only 30% on career pull-up 3s, and 33% of pull-up 2s -- not enough to justify inside the arc and hoisting with plenty of time on the shot clock:

Reddish has 10 assists in 12 games. It's hard for any perimeter player to record so few dimes.

 

The Hawks have scored 117.3 points per 100 possessions with Reddish on the bench, and 95.9 when he plays -- larger than the gap between the league's best and worst offenses.

That's not all on Reddish, of course. Atlanta's bench mob lineups are pretty punchless. But it's somewhat telling that Atlanta's offense with Reddish has been about as bad regardless of whether Young is out there too, per http://nba.com.

And ya'll want to start this guy?

Edited November 12, 2021 by terrell

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[ATLHawks3]

10 minutes ago, terrell said:

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32609564/stupefying-kevin-durant-sneaky-pet-moves-dallas-snazzy-passes-kuz

 

Depth can be a secret sauce in the regular-season. It fosters competition. But such competition -- and hovering contract situations -- can build stress that manifests in minor shot-chasing.

That could be infecting Reddish, jacking about four pull-up jumpers per game -- well above his career average.

Reddish has made only 30% on career pull-up 3s, and 33% of pull-up 2s -- not enough to justify inside the arc and hoisting with plenty of time on the shot clock:

Reddish has 10 assists in 12 games. It's hard for any perimeter player to record so few dimes.

 

The Hawks have scored 117.3 points per 100 possessions with Reddish on the bench, and 95.9 when he plays -- larger than the gap between the league's best and worst offenses.

That's not all on Reddish, of course. Atlanta's bench mob lineups are pretty punchless. But it's somewhat telling that Atlanta's offense with Reddish has been about as bad regardless of whether Young is out there too, per http://nba.com.

And ya'll want to start this guy?

He's got to play better. No questions about it. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

While I think he is not someone who is scalable indefinitely like a true shot creator (AI could shoot the ball every time up the court even if not particularly efficiently), it is obvious he can and should be getting more looks.

2018-19  16.4 FGA/36, 23.7% usage rate

2019-20  16.0 FGA/36, 22.7% usage rate

2020-21  15.0 FGA/36, 22.2% usage rate

2021-22  12.2 FGA/36,  17.7% usage rate

 

He is currently at a lower usage rate than his rookie year and way down from the past 3 seasons.  JC averaged 15 shots a game two years ago.  We need to get something much closer to that number out of him and the question really isn't whether he can do more than he is this year.  The key questions are (1) why isn't he shooting at his normal rate and (2) how much can he scale up beyond what he has already done?  The fact that both LP and Nate haven't run plays for him despite his amazing efficiency suggests they don't think he is scalable beyond a certain point but with the skills he has added every year I wouldn't rule it out that he can continue to do more - especially if the offense actually does something to facilitate that happening.

 

I think the way you achieve this is to feature JC in the offense WITHOUT Trae on the floor.  And the way you do this is to have Trae be the 1st sub out the game at the 6 minute mark in the 1st and 3rd quarters.  Let Delon or Lou play with the starters for a 5 - 6 minute stretch, and see if John can get an increased amount of touches without Trae in the game, but still surrounded by 3 - 4 starters.

• Delon/Lou
• Bogi
• Hunter
• Collins
• Capela

I would then play Trae as the leader of the 2nd unit, giving that group a player that can make them better, but also a guy who can score with that unit.  This is what Golden State tends to do with Curry.  That also enables him to put up huge point totals, because the bench guys are always looking for him first, and taking open shots 2nd.

If this grouping started the 2nd and 4th quarters . . .

• Trae
• Kevin
• Cam
• Gallo
• Dieng

I think the 2nd unit could more than hold their own, because they would have Trae running with them for most of their minutes.   He'd be the scorer and facilitator that the group needs.  I'd also let Trae go as long as he could in the 2nd quarter, maybe pulling him out with 2 minutes to go in the quarter.  At minimum, he'd play 10 minutes in the 2nd and 4th quarters, while logging an automatic 6 - 7 minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I think the way you achieve this is to feature JC in the offense WITHOUT Trae on the floor.  And the way you do this is to have Trae be the 1st sub out the game at the 6 minute mark in the 1st and 3rd quarters.  Let Delon or Lou play with the starters for a 5 - 6 minute stretch, and see if John can get an increased amount of touches without Trae in the game, but still surrounded by 3 - 4 starters.

• Delon/Lou
• Bogi
• Hunter
• Collins
• Capela

I would then play Trae as the leader of the 2nd unit, giving that group a player that can make them better, but also a guy who can score with that unit.  This is what Golden State tends to do with Curry.  That also enables him to put up huge point totals, because the bench guys are always looking for him first, and taking open shots 2nd.

If this grouping started the 2nd and 4th quarters . . .

• Trae
• Kevin
• Cam
• Gallo
• Dieng

I think the 2nd unit could more than hold their own, because they would have Trae running with them for most of their minutes.   He'd be the scorer and facilitator that the group needs.  I'd also let Trae go as long as he could in the 2nd quarter, maybe pulling him out with 2 minutes to go in the quarter.  At minimum, he'd play 10 minutes in the 2nd and 4th quarters, while logging an automatic 6 - 7 minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters.

This would require Nate to disband his 'ALL BENCH' lineup. I just don't get why he makes this a thing.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

20 hours ago, terrell said:

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32609564/stupefying-kevin-durant-sneaky-pet-moves-dallas-snazzy-passes-kuz

 

Depth can be a secret sauce in the regular-season. It fosters competition. But such competition -- and hovering contract situations -- can build stress that manifests in minor shot-chasing.

That could be infecting Reddish, jacking about four pull-up jumpers per game -- well above his career average.

Reddish has made only 30% on career pull-up 3s, and 33% of pull-up 2s -- not enough to justify inside the arc and hoisting with plenty of time on the shot clock:

Reddish has 10 assists in 12 games. It's hard for any perimeter player to record so few dimes.

 

The Hawks have scored 117.3 points per 100 possessions with Reddish on the bench, and 95.9 when he plays -- larger than the gap between the league's best and worst offenses.

That's not all on Reddish, of course. Atlanta's bench mob lineups are pretty punchless. But it's somewhat telling that Atlanta's offense with Reddish has been about as bad regardless of whether Young is out there too, per http://nba.com.

And ya'll want to start this guy?

My intention isn't to pile on Cam, but I just do not enjoy watching him on the court. 

The eye test says he is a black hole with the ball, and then you see the numbers that back it up.

Even if he WAS shooting with efficiency, you would want to see him move the ball around more and not be the guy where the ball is guaranteed to stop. It's bigger than just him, it becomes contagious. 

We are a team of guys we are trying to get going, instead of a team that creates the best shot opportunity.

Cam's IQ is not where it needs to be. He wanted to skip Summer League so I am done making excuses for him. Development comes secondary to winning right now. He can play defense, but nothing else is NBA quality that doesnt have "potential" attached to it. Yes he CAN do a lot of amazing things, but he does NONE of them consistently and that is a problem for a guy who wont pass and thinks he has the green light to find his shot.

When this team clicked last year there was one guy noticeably absent from that run. We played better TEAM defense, we took better shots, we made better decisions, we protected the ball and possessions. 

It's not all on Cam, but we have proven what we can be without him on the floor. Him coming back shouldn't disrupt everything we established just so he can find the shooting rhythm that has escaped him since he graduated High School.

His green light has done more harm than good for us. 

[Spud2nique]

52 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

There we go. We need some hungry folks to step in and light a fire like Goodwin did last year. 

[NBASupes]

On 11/12/2021 at 8:21 AM, AHF said:

While I think he is not someone who is scalable indefinitely like a true shot creator (AI could shoot the ball every time up the court even if not particularly efficiently), it is obvious he can and should be getting more looks.

2018-19  16.4 FGA/36, 23.7% usage rate

2019-20  16.0 FGA/36, 22.7% usage rate

2020-21  15.0 FGA/36, 22.2% usage rate

2021-22  12.2 FGA/36,  17.7% usage rate

 

He is currently at a lower usage rate than his rookie year and way down from the past 3 seasons.  JC averaged 15 shots a game two years ago.  We need to get something much closer to that number out of him and the question really isn't whether he can do more than he is this year.  The key questions are (1) why isn't he shooting at his normal rate and (2) how much can he scale up beyond what he has already done?  The fact that both LP and Nate haven't run plays for him despite his amazing efficiency suggests they don't think he is scalable beyond a certain point but with the skills he has added every year I wouldn't rule it out that he can continue to do more - especially if the offense actually does something to facilitate that happening.

He's not scalable. Most bigs aren't unless they are top tier creators. Guys like Embiid are rare because they can draw fouls at an elite level and can score in the paint at an elite level. JC is pretty much at his scoring peak. What we need from him, is more of what he's doing now. Big MINS.