So we just going to avoid this topic about “Wing Twist”?

[JTB]

Lets clear the air! …..and even for me it’s hard to say it but damn it…it must be said!

like many I expected “Wingstop” (Cam & Hunter) to be the future SG and SF combo for years to come but I have to be honest….the team is a better starting 5, more smooth offensively, more deadly offensively, and perhaps just as good defensively with “Wing Twist” (Bogi and Huerter) aka that playoff lineup we were forced to play due to injury last season and being forced to play again due to injury and like it or not the team look better with WING TWIST in the starting lineup at both ends of the court.

 

im not saying “Wingstop” won’t pan out and be better but I’m going to address it like I see it. TO ME Huerter is the future starting 2 guard, Trae needs that good shooter there who cuts, moves off ball, and just plays smart. Huerter should never be taken out of the starting lineup again in my opinion!
2nd Bogi is not as expendable as we once thought! The fact is Bogi understands the scheme better and his fit better with Trae and Huerter in the starting lineup .
 

It’s not a coincidence this team has looked better overall just because they are at home…..fact is “Wing Twist” is the better wing duo but it’s hard to admit that since we spent two high draft picks on what was SUPPOSED to be the future wings cam and hunter. Facts are facts though folks!….Cam and Hunter shouldn’t be traded but they need to earn their starting positions and honestly I see that as a tall task in the future over “Wing Twist”……

In a era where Wings are so valuable I would not be shocked to see Schlenk draft more Wing players. Got to keep the competition going.

[Diesel]

Wingstop is Hunter.   Cam is something else.   Hunter unfortunately is out and he may never be a longtime Hawk.   However, I do agree, Huerter has a better future right now.   He plays the way we need him to play and Cam is inconsistent and Bogi is not as defensive.  It also can't be missed that at Home Bogi is finding his shot. 

 

[Final_quest]

I don’t think people are ready yet.  They fell in love with a fantasy and ignored the actual results.  Two guys who can dribble, pass, and shoot vs two who are developing those skills.  In Cam’s case he’s actually bad at all three.  Trae can’t carry that much of a load.  
Bogi and Kevin get results, but yeah no one wants to acknowledge it.  

 

[Sothron]

Cam needs to be on a rebuilding team where he has reliable minutes and a forgiving coach/expectation level to let him play through his shortcomings as a player. For us, we don't have that luxury.

I was resistant to including him for an established star until a week or so ago. But I can't deny the reality of Cam's situation and where we are as a franchise. We just don't have time to develop him and also expect him to fulfill roles he just isn't consistent at doing.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I have no problem with Cam in his current role. He simply needs to find his niche as a player.

It's forcing Hunter to not only start, but play 1/2 of is minutes out of position at the 4, that is the problem.

Nate needs to stop playing him out of position and let him play the 3 or the 2 ( which I think would be better for him ).

 

[JTB]

4 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I don’t think people are ready yet.  They fell in love with a fantasy and ignored the actual results.  Two guys who can dribble, pass, and shoot vs two who are developing those skills.  In Cam’s case he’s actually bad at all three.  Trae can’t carry that much of a load.  
Bogi and Kevin get results, but yeah no one wants to acknowledge it.  

 

I’m acknowledging it . It just is what it is man.

[JTB]

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

Cam needs to be on a rebuilding team where he has reliable minutes and a forgiving coach/expectation level to let him play through his shortcomings as a player. For us, we don't have that luxury.

I was resistant to including him for an established star until a week or so ago. But I can't deny the reality of Cam's situation and where we are as a franchise. We just don't have time to develop him and also expect him to fulfill roles he just isn't consistent at doing.

I think Cams current role off the bench is perfect! It allows the mistakes to be made…hes right where he needs to be in my opinion and that’s here in Atlanta. We just need to stop forcing the starting spot on him as fans and honestly to me hunter has to re win his starting position as well .

[Final_quest]

28 minutes ago, JTB said:

I’m acknowledging it . It just is what it is man.

I greatly appreciate it.  Last week I had a crazy idea about trading Gallo, Bogi, and Cam for FVV and Siakam.  Think about a starting lineup:

Trae
FVV
Siakam
Collins
Capela

Bring in Huerter as 6th man.  Let FVV run the 2nd unit.  Then bring Hunter in for Collins and shift Siakim to the 4.  Then have Collins get time with the 2nd unit as well. Sharife and Jalen eventually get worked into the rotation as they develop.  

[JTB]

55 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I greatly appreciate it.  Last week I had a crazy idea about trading Gallo, Bogi, and Cam for FVV and Siakam.  Think about a starting lineup:

Trae
FVV
Siakam
Collins
Capela

Bring in Huerter as 6th man.  Let FVV run the 2nd unit.  Then bring Hunter in for Collins and shift Siakim to the 4.  Then have Collins get time with the 2nd unit as well. Sharife and Jalen eventually get worked into the rotation as they develop.  

Not a fan of Siakam at the 3. I’m still ok with us keeping Wingstop (Cam & Hunter) long term because I do still believe they will both develop into good players. I just think perhaps  due to Traes quick offensive development that he’s shown to impact the game greatly as we’ve seen, we as fans may have subconsciously rushed Hunter and Cam to be something they aren’t ready to be right now while at the same time not giving the other young player Huerter his props for being more consistent, more ready, and more impactful than Wingstop overall.

Not being negative about those two…we still need Hunter and Cam for many reasons. Just like last playoffs we needed hunter to lockdown Randle and he did just that, not even fully healthy!

Those two both still have great potential but a lesser role on the team may benefit them both or like cam is doing playing  6th man (somewhat) allows him to make those mistakes while gaining the experience. Hunter should be a full time 3 like others have suggested and his role should be just 3 & D. I feel fans like myself and maybe somewhat the coaching staff has tried to force hunter into a consistent scoring option and he’s not there yet to give us that on a consistent basis but the potential is there.

 

With the above said….I would say right now Cam and Hunter are situational starters and not necessarily consistent starters like Huerter and Bogi can be since they play better with Trae than hunter and Cam do currently.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I don’t think people are ready yet.  They fell in love with a fantasy and ignored the actual results.  Two guys who can dribble, pass, and shoot vs two who are developing those skills.  In Cam’s case he’s actually bad at all three.  Trae can’t carry that much of a load.  
Bogi and Kevin get results, but yeah no one wants to acknowledge it.  

 

I said a while back that We needed to go back to the Playoff lineup....Hunter and Bogi just aren't a good fit imo.. Hunter balled out early in the season last year, and we were still losing.. Now we might have to adjust in the Playoffs. Depends on the matchups...

 

[JTB]

FYI….I used the terminology “Wing Twist” as a thread name because the thought of most fans including myself figured Reddish and Hunter would be the wing starters at the 2 and 3…..but the reality is things turned out to be twisted and Huerter and Bogi are actually better starters.

just wanted to clear that up in case it was missed…. I’m not trying to give Bogi and Huerter some new duo nickname. LOL

 

It just goes to show that sometimes when trying to build a contender things don’t go exactly as planned. A good example would be the reigning champions Milwaukee Bucks themselves! When they were building a contender to try to win, originally Jabari Parker, Middleton, and Giannis were supposed to be their BIG 3 with Jabari as the leader and we see how that turned out.

[JeffS17]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

We just don't have time to develop him and also expect him to fulfill roles he just isn't consistent at doing.

I don't really agree with this.  Cam is still pretty raw but we're not in some crazy crunch to compete.  We're not the Lakers or Nets or Suns with superstars aging into their 30s.  Cam is good enough on defense that he can still get serviceable minutes and develop his game with us, imo.  Not saying we shouldn't be open to trading him but I think we can develop and sty competitive.  The Spurs did this for decades

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

I think Cams current role off the bench is perfect! It allows the mistakes to be made…hes right where he needs to be in my opinion and that’s here in Atlanta. We just need to stop forcing the starting spot on him as fans and honestly to me hunter has to re win his starting position as well .

Not so fast my friend.   We're not a rebuilding team anymore.   We are actually a team vying for a good playoff position and wins vs good teams.   Do you know how back breaking it is to take a lead with the first team and then to have the second team fumble that lead away because they are allowed to make mistakes?  That's fine for a team like Orlando.. but we're not in that spot anymore.   We're trying to be like GS.  We're trying to win.   I'm not saying dump Cam.  I'm saying stop lowering the bar for Cam. 

[JeffS17]

59 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Not so fast my friend.   We're not a rebuilding team anymore.   We are actually a team vying for a good playoff position and wins vs good teams.   Do you know how back breaking it is to take a lead with the first team and then to have the second team fumble that lead away because they are allowed to make mistakes?  That's fine for a team like Orlando.. but we're not in that spot anymore.   We're trying to be like GS.  We're trying to win.   I'm not saying dump Cam.  I'm saying stop lowering the bar for Cam. 

Cam hasn't developed into a starting caliber player but he's not some G league scrub.  He can absolutely play bench minutes and contribute while improving.  Let's not pretend like Cam getting minutes instead of Solo is going to lose us a bunch of games.

[Final_quest]

7 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Cam hasn't developed into a starting caliber player but he's not some G league scrub.  He can absolutely play bench minutes and contribute while improving.  Let's not pretend like Cam getting minutes instead of Solo is going to lose us a bunch of games.

Listen to yourself.   Read your phrases "can contribute" "not some G league scrub" and finally he won't "lose us a bunch of games".  Does any of that inspire you to want to play this guy?  Nothing bad being said about him, but not much glowing positivity. 
Devin Booker scored 70 points in a game at the age of 20, and people on this board were talking about Cam like he was a top young talent in the league a few weeks ago.  Now it has turned into he might contribute and I don't think he will cause us to lose. I want to WIN games.
Also, is no one going to acknowledge that from Game 6 against the Bucks through the first couple games of the season that Cam was completely overhyped?  The takes on Cam were 6th man of the year, MIP, perhaps the best wing player in his age group, etc.  That has turned into trying to convince people he can positively contribute.  It's hey guys, he's better than a G league scrub.  If I'm trying to be a contender, I want something better.  

[Final_quest]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

Not a fan of Siakam at the 3. I’m still ok with us keeping Wingstop (Cam & Hunter) long term because I do still believe they will both develop into good players. I just think perhaps  due to Traes quick offensive development that he’s shown to impact the game greatly as we’ve seen, we as fans may have subconsciously rushed Hunter and Cam to be something they aren’t ready to be right now while at the same time not giving the other young player Huerter his props for being more consistent, more ready, and more impactful than Wingstop overall.

Not being negative about those two…we still need Hunter and Cam for many reasons. Just like last playoffs we needed hunter to lockdown Randle and he did just that, not even fully healthy!

Those two both still have great potential but a lesser role on the team may benefit them both or like cam is doing playing  6th man (somewhat) allows him to make those mistakes while gaining the experience. Hunter should be a full time 3 like others have suggested and his role should be just 3 & D. I feel fans like myself and maybe somewhat the coaching staff has tried to force hunter into a consistent scoring option and he’s not there yet to give us that on a consistent basis but the potential is there.

 

With the above said….I would say right now Cam and Hunter are situational starters and not necessarily consistent starters like Huerter and Bogi can be since they play better with Trae than hunter and Cam do currently.

It almost sounds like we're in an abusive relationship with these guys or at best a mediocre marriage.  My vision is for us to acquire the best players in the NBA.  We don't have to permanently commit to every player we draft.  

[mrhonline]

Year 3 is typically seen as 'put up or shut up' time in a prospect's development because they are extension eligible the next summer.

Personally, I've been unimpressed with Cam. He doesn't really have the mentality of a 3&D player on offense. (The tunnel vision is infuriating). If that changed, I think he'd be worth a longer investment.

The fact that it's not really in Cam's best financial interest to reduce his role makes me think a trade is coming in February.

Maybe Gallo + Reddish + protected pick could net a decent SF.

[aali34]

A players growth can be interesting to watch. I'd like everyone to remember JC's ups and downs leading up to this season. 

• Suspended for violation of NBA drug policy
• Questions about his fit with Clint once he was acquired
• Declines team's reported offer of 90mil, which some saw as an overpay
• Speculation of whether he would start with Gallo being signed
• "Drama" in the locker room surrounding him and Trae early in the season
• Was no longer the consensus second best player after Trae. It became arguable that Dre, Cap, and Bogi fit the mold better.

Even with his play prior to last season he wasn't highly valued as an advanced stats guy and some people questioned whether or not he could help a winning team. @NBASupes used to say he would best serve as a 6th man on a championship team.

Fast forward to the offseason. Coming off of a solid playoff performance JC signs a 5year 120mil deal. I saw it as a slight overpay which I believe was the general consensus. Now it's obvious that JC is outplaying his contract and has easily been the second best player after Trae and is performing at an All-star level. His overall skill and IQ are on display, his defense has been great, and he's an advanced stats darling.

I state all that to say that I'm gonna hold off on chastising Cam or Dre. JC became who he is now by evolving as a player last season. I think Dre and Cam deserve that as well.

If Travis were to make a decision on either guy, I trust it will be the right one.

 

[JeffS17]

3 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Listen to yourself.   Read your phrases "can contribute" "not some G league scrub" and finally he won't "lose us a bunch of games".  Does any of that inspire you to want to play this guy?  Nothing bad being said about him, but not much glowing positivity. 
Devin Booker scored 70 points in a game at the age of 20, and people on this board were talking about Cam like he was a top young talent in the league a few weeks ago.  Now it has turned into he might contribute and I don't think he will cause us to lose. I want to WIN games.
Also, is no one going to acknowledge that from Game 6 against the Bucks through the first couple games of the season that Cam was completely overhyped?  The takes on Cam were 6th man of the year, MIP, perhaps the best wing player in his age group, etc.  That has turned into trying to convince people he can positively contribute.  It's hey guys, he's better than a G league scrub.  If I'm trying to be a contender, I want something better.  

Everything you're saying is basically you want to win as many games as possible RIGHT NOW.  The entire point of my post is that we are not under some urgent timeline.  Sure, Cam should be made available for the right player at the right price, but you guys are acting like our success will be determined by if we can ship him out and consolidate or not.  I'm perfectly happy letting him continue to develop with bench minutes.

We're not in a position to pick up meaningful free agents anymore and trading comes with obvious risks, so in my opinion, developing drafted talent is probably our most likely chance of sustained success.  We should absolutely consolidate if a key difference maker comes available but don't need desperately look to ship out our young guys.

[JeffS17]

20 minutes ago, mrhonline said:

Year 3 is typically seen as 'put up or shut up' time in a prospect's development because they are extension eligible the next summer.

Personally, I've been unimpressed with Cam. He doesn't really have the mentality of a 3&D player on offense. (The tunnel vision is infuriating). If that changed, I think he'd be worth a longer investment.

The fact that it's not really in Cam's best financial interest to reduce his role makes me think a trade is coming in February.

Maybe Gallo + Reddish + protected pick could net a decent SF.

I hope that we don't package gallo and cam for a marginally better player that will yield us marginally better results.  If we're going to ship away our talent prospects and future flexibility, it needs to be for someone who is going to make a big splash.  Jaylen Brown type player at a minimum.