Official Game Thread: Half-Baked-Hawks at Several-Sixers

[Final_quest]

Lebron won with ball dominant guards.  Kyrie was scoring 40 points in the Finals vs GS.  Kyrie and D Wade were not passively watching Lebron.  In fact both he and Trae have an easier life with secondary facilitators.  We play better when our best passing wings are paired with Trae.
 

if Trae can’t coexist with Cam, to me that is making a case to move Cam.  Cam is shooting 42% and creates more turnovers than assists.  He played well in a couple games, but it’s a little soon to be saying, “Trae needs to give the ball up.”.  
 

 

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Lebron won with ball dominant guards.  Kyrie was scoring 40 points in the Finals vs GS.  Kyrie and D Wade were not passively watching Lebron.  In fact both he and Trae have an easier life with secondary facilitators.  We play better when our best passing wings are paired with Trae.
 

if Trae can’t coexist with Cam, to me that is making a case to move Cam.  Cam is shooting 42% and creates more turnovers than assists.  He played well in a couple games, but it’s a little soon to be saying, “Trae needs to give the ball up.”.  
 

 

I think you totally missed Supes point.

[Final_quest]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Can Trae work with Cam or anyone that's a guard that needs 50-60 touches a game. I don't know and I haven't seen any reason to believe he can. 

Maybe this isn’t his main point, but this sounds pretty black and white.  Key word is IF they can’t coexist, then Cam needs to go.  

I’m not convinced Trae couldn’t play with a high usage wing, but if that’s true.  I’m gonna keep Trae over Cam.  
 

If I’m missing something, fill in the gaps.  

[NBASupes]

58 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Maybe this isn’t his main point, but this sounds pretty black and white.  Key word is IF they can’t coexist, then Cam needs to go.  

I’m not convinced Trae couldn’t play with a high usage wing, but if that’s true.  I’m gonna keep Trae over Cam.  
 

If I’m missing something, fill in the gaps.  

The issue is, the only stars we can have are bigs and how many stars are bigs? KAT, Embiid, and Jokic and those teams aren't looking to trade those guys. The only thing we can do is build up our assets chest so we can have the assets to land one of these guys when they become available. 

There is a chance AD could become available. Do you trade JC for AD knowing AD is regressing? That's all you can do. Brooklyn has proved players are more valuable than picks. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I think you totally missed Supes point.

He completely missed it. Mainly because LeBron is the GOAT. Trae isn't. You dont have to fit Bron and you can still win, that's different for Trae. Fit has to be there. Trae doesn't do nowhere near as much on both ends as LeBron. That's not shame, LeBron is the best player to grace the game.

 

My point wasn't just Cam, it's any guard that needs 50-60 touches per game. Guys like Bron needs 80-90, no way him and Trae can coexist and one of them gets there way. It's all about touches and quality touches.

Edited December 25, 2021 by NBASupes

[marco102]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He completely missed it. Mainly because LeBron is the GOAT. Trae isn't. You dont have to fit Bron and you can still win, that's different for Trae. Fit has to be there. Trae doesn't do nowhere near as much on both ends as LeBron. That's not shame, LeBron is the best player to grace the game.

 

My point wasn't just Cam, it's any guard that needs 50-60 touches per game. Guys like Bron needs 80-90, no way him and Trae can coexist and one of them gets there way. It's all about touches and quality touches.

I think you have some solid points Supes. However, Trae has deferred in the first three quarters when one of our wings has it going. It is the 4th quarter where he doesn't defer as much. 

I'm of the ilk of let them grow together and I think it will work out. 

We are talking about offense and as far as what I've seen, Trae is on par with LeBron on the offensive side of the ball when considering scoring and playmaking. He is literally generational. Being that, if one of our wings breaks out, I believe he will differ to them more often. It will make his life easier in late game situations if Cam is going to the basket and finishing or getting a foul. It is what we have been missing. Trae is the only one doing anything off the dribble or creating in the 4th.

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

I think you have some solid points Supes. However, Trae has deferred in the first three quarters when one of our wings has it going. It is the 4th quarter where he doesn't defer as much. 

I'm of the ilk of let them grow together and I think it will work out. 

We are talking about offense and as far as what I've seen, Trae is on par with LeBron on the offensive side of the ball when considering scoring and playmaking. He is literally generational. Being that, if one of our wings breaks out, I believe he will differ to them more often. It will make his life easier in late game situations if Cam is going to the basket and finishing or getting a foul. It is what we have been missing. Trae is the only one doing anything off the dribble or creating in the 4th.

Trae doesn't defer the offense. He defers shots like Marbury but he never defers the offense. Even Zeke one of the GOAT PGs he had coexist with Dumars. That's something Trae has to develop even if it's nowhere near as efficient as Trae being Trae. 

Even with Bogi last year, Trae had a hard time just giving him 5 more touches from 37 to 42 touches a game and Bogi had to shot the f***ing lights out of the ball. Quality touches matter so much, especially when in those 5 extra touches, 4 are of quality and with Trae on the court.

One of the things Hunter struggles with is getting quality touches from Trae. All of our wings have struggled with it. Bogi and Kev combo has worked the best because Kev copies Bogi actions when they are on the court together with Trae. As soon as they get the ball and pressure has been heightened on Trae, they move it asap or attack the weak part of the defend and it kills defenses. Which is why I say, that's our best lineup because we can constantly attack with that unit. That said, most wings aren't capable of playing like that and the flaws are, if Trae is struggling or playing hurt, the offense can simply lose a lot of luster while the defense is doa. 

He's not exactly Bron offensively due to Brons ability to play 44 to 48 mins in key games with elite stamina and just make it a living hell on you. Defensively, even though he takes constant breaks, he tends to put your defense in foul trouble making you have to play offensively trash players who Bron just defends on the other end who's no treat to score on him. This is Bron impact if he's playing with Marco and Supes much less other stars as he has in the passed. Trae is an unique once in a generation offensive player. I still say his best value is in the playoffs where we seen him elevate his defense to league average while putting extreme pressure on the defense as he has the time to force and find your flaws and his personality type is Reggie Miller so he's a assassin at heart. Those types elevate in the playoffs like no others. 

[aali34]

Trae is smart and looks to be the kind of guy who will do what it takes to win.

Last season he grew as a pure point gaurd, I don't find it too hard to believe he can adapt to playing with a ball dominant wing. Wasn't his AAU teammate Michael Porter Jr?

He's also very fond of Cam, calling him one of the most talented players he's ever played with, even openly admitting the Hawks tanked to get him. 

Again, I wanna see Cam torch bench units first, we'll cross this bridge when we get there.

[Peoriabird]

A hot teammmte has been frozen out in the 4th quarter of games Too many times to count over the years

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

A hot guy has been frozen

[Peoriabird]

One of the few times that it didn't happen was game 7 against Philly last year.

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Trae is smart and looks to be the kind of guy who will do what it takes to win.

Last season he grew as a pure point gaurd, I don't find it too hard to believe he can adapt to playing with a ball dominant wing. Wasn't his AAU teammate Michael Porter Jr?

He's also very fond of Cam, calling him one of the most talented players he's ever played with, even openly admitting the Hawks tanked to get him. 

Again, I wanna see Cam torch bench units first, we'll cross this bridge when we get there.

MPJ in HS can opt out of the low post and wing with no difference at that level and played the same position as JC at that level. That's not a good comp. 

He's a pure PG, he's been that. He still lacks the ability to run an offense that's not catered to his style of play. He's not Bibby out there getting guys touches where they feel most comfortable unless it benefits him. CP3 and Nash can do that. Trae still has to learn that. He's got the middy down now. He even has his floater down but he has share offensive load. That's something he still hasn't adjusted to yet and our 4th quarters are shit for it. 

[Cwell]

29 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Trae is smart and looks to be the kind of guy who will do what it takes to win.

Last season he grew as a pure point gaurd, I don't find it too hard to believe he can adapt to playing with a ball dominant wing. Wasn't his AAU teammate Michael Porter Jr?

He's also very fond of Cam, calling him one of the most talented players he's ever played with, even openly admitting the Hawks tanked to get him. 

Again, I wanna see Cam torch bench units first, we'll cross this bridge when we get there.

I still remember draft night when Washington took Rui, Trae tweeted out to the likes of "wow this can't be happening" in regards to Cam still being on the board. I think that tandem works itself out in the long run. It takes the right coach to make it work though

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He completely missed it. Mainly because LeBron is the GOAT. Trae isn't. You dont have to fit Bron and you can still win, that's different for Trae. Fit has to be there. Trae doesn't do nowhere near as much on both ends as LeBron. That's not shame, LeBron is the best player to grace the game.

 

My point wasn't just Cam, it's any guard that needs 50-60 touches per game. Guys like Bron needs 80-90, no way him and Trae can coexist and one of them gets there way. It's all about touches and quality touches.

I agree that Lebron and Trae are not a perfect match, and almost anyone can win with Lebron.  He won a lot of games with Kyrie, even though Kyrie eventually got tired of deferring to him.  So really why even talk about Lebron?  

As far as missing your point, maybe I’m not even addressing your main point.  When you say you don’t see any reason to believe Trae can work with Cam, it doesn’t sound like they should be paired together.  I do understand words.  Leave Lebron out of it.  Can Trae play with Cam?