Build Proposals Around Trae = Exercise in Futility

[bleachkit]

I wonder how Trae would play with a guy like Jokic. 

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The expectation is that there will always be a thread that has Trae is the problem as it's theme whenever we lose.   That's because there is an undercurrent of people who are still mad that we took Trae and the pick over Luka.  This Topic is the Jordan vs. Lebron argument of Hawks Basketball.

There... I like to call a thing a thing.... Gentlemen... we can't change the past... and actually, I still believe Trae is the better player for us.

There's your fighting point. 

There is a lot of truth here.  It's well past 'get over it' time on the Trae v Luka trade thing.

Even if folks think it was a bad move, so freaking what?  It's not gonna be rescinded.  It was freaking how many years ago?  How long do people want to hang onto that stuff?

Like, every time Dallas has a good game, they come here and rage-post.

That's fun?

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

He's not an easy star to build around, but we have to try. 

Agreed.  It is what it is.

[Diesel]

Let me explain my point.

LUKA is not the star for Atlanta... Trae is...

1.  There's the Historic Nature of Trae's accomplishments.

Trae has a lot of historic accomplishments already in his 4th year.  He walks the walk...   I won't go through them all but he's been mentioned in circles with Jordan, Lebron, and Oscar Robertson.. and he has also been mentioned in circles all by himself... things that no other player has done.   

2.  There's the fact that you can't say that he's like any other player...

He's been called a clone of Nash...  Nash was not the scorer that Trae is.  He's been called a clone of AI.. Ai was not the passer that Trae is... Trae is a freakin UNICORN.

3.  Atlanta needs a Personality.....

Something that Luka can't provide.   Trae is the personality that we need.  After Joe Cool and Matty Ice.. guys who played very well but never really sparked the fans interest...  Trae is the guy that our city has been waiting on since Dominique.   He's loud.  He's confident.  He talks his shit.. and he backs it up...  He's the littlest guy in the game that garners the most respect.  That represent our city.   All of the people who cry that we don't have Luka... do you see the Diva that Luka is?  Luka has already gotten one coach fired and another star player traded.   Luka would have gone back to Europe or forced us to trade him by now...  TRAE IS ATLANTA...

 

 

[NBASupes]

30 minutes ago, Mikey said:

This is an insane thread. We were literally two wins away from a finals appearance. Trae young is not the problem by any means. He needs to give effort and improve his defense but that is an issue for quite literally all but 3-4 players on the team.

 

The personnel around him and the coach they hired are terrible right now. 

He is  ceiling raiser. If he could play defense like he did in the playoffs last year and be a 0 to -5 defensive player, sure, he's a superstar and one we can't live without but what he has been in the RS defensively is a consistent -20. That's not just bad, its WOAT for anyone who's played professional NBA Basketball 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let me explain my point.

LUKA is not the star for Atlanta... Trae is...

1.  There's the Historic Nature of Trae's accomplishments.

Trae has a lot of historic accomplishments already in his 4th year.  He walks the walk...   I won't go through them all but he's been mentioned in circles with Jordan, Lebron, and Oscar Robertson.. and he has also been mentioned in circles all by himself... things that no other player has done.   

2.  There's the fact that you can't say that he's like any other player...

He's been called a clone of Nash...  Nash was not the scorer that Trae is.  He's been called a clone of AI.. Ai was not the passer that Trae is... Trae is a freakin UNICORN.

3.  Atlanta needs a Personality.....

Something that Luka can't provide.   Trae is the personality that we need.  After Joe Cool and Matty Ice.. guys who played very well but never really sparked the fans interest...  Trae is the guy that our city has been waiting on since Dominique.   He's loud.  He's confident.  He talks his shit.. and he backs it up...  He's the littlest guy in the game that garners the most respect.  That represent our city.   All of the people who cry that we don't have Luka... do you see the Diva that Luka is?  Luka has already gotten one coach fired and another star player traded.   Luka would have gone back to Europe or forced us to trade him by now...  TRAE IS ATLANTA...

 

 

What does this have to do with wins and losses?

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let me explain my point.

LUKA is not the star for Atlanta... Trae is...

1.  There's the Historic Nature of Trae's accomplishments.

Trae has a lot of historic accomplishments already in his 4th year.  He walks the walk...   I won't go through them all but he's been mentioned in circles with Jordan, Lebron, and Oscar Robertson.. and he has also been mentioned in circles all by himself... things that no other player has done.   

2.  There's the fact that you can't say that he's like any other player...

He's been called a clone of Nash...  Nash was not the scorer that Trae is.  He's been called a clone of AI.. Ai was not the passer that Trae is... Trae is a freakin UNICORN.

3.  Atlanta needs a Personality.....

Something that Luka can't provide.   Trae is the personality that we need.  After Joe Cool and Matty Ice.. guys who played very well but never really sparked the fans interest...  Trae is the guy that our city has been waiting on since Dominique.   He's loud.  He's confident.  He talks his shit.. and he backs it up...  He's the littlest guy in the game that garners the most respect.  That represent our city.   All of the people who cry that we don't have Luka... do you see the Diva that Luka is?  Luka has already gotten one coach fired and another star player traded.   Luka would have gone back to Europe or forced us to trade him by now...  TRAE IS ATLANTA...

 

 

Man if Luka was in Atlanta, he would be a star. I don't buy that Luka is not a star rubbish.

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Yesterday day we played the 10th seed in the west at home.  We should not struggle with those kinds of teams if we are considered contenders.

We aren't contenders, but to say that is because of Young and the impossibility to build a team around him is a pretty huge stretch. Who played yesterday on the Hawks who is even in the aproximate realm of All Star level outside of Trae Young? Clint is the only guy that would even get consideration. So let's not act like we are squandoring a contender with Trae, that's insane. Hunter in his career without Trae has been a calamity on offense with a FG% in the low 30s. He's not going to "blossom" playing somewhere else if he can't do it here. Huerter is what he is, a bench type piece that can get hot, one way player. Period. Bogi is the closest thing we have had as far as a secondary offensive "star" but he is wildly inconsistent. When he is on btw the Hawks are almost impossible to beat. Bogi had the best stretch of his career BY FAR playing next to Trae last year.

P.S. since the Covid dark days trough the Hawks are 18-11 in their last 29 games. That's .620% which would be second seed in the east. If the Hawks hadn't had to struggle with another year of a plethora of injuries and the ridiculous two week stretch of playing with a team full of players we nabbed straight outta the corner of the street, this thread wouldn't exist. Yes, the Hawks have blown a few winnable games during the last 29 game stretch, but the expectation that we should be "running the table" and winning every game is perhaps, not realistic? We are playing without Collins, Trae young is clearly battling through injury the last couple of games he has played, and believe it or not that teams we play against are maybe not chopped liver?

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Just to highlight how stupid "net rating" is as a metric to evaluate a player Capela has an offenseive rating of 131 on the team highest by a massive margin. Gorgui Dieng has a net rating of 123-111 vs Bogi of 113 - 116.

Deandre Bembry who played a similar amount of minutes to KD has a better net rating in Brooklyn than KD. What does all this tell us? Nothing. 

I don't use any metric exclusively but it's no shock Capela has an insane offensive rating when we spam the 1/5 PnR to extreme levels with Trae/Capela 

 

Bembry success especially early on with Durant is no shock because he played off the ball very well with KD. He fell off when teams just stop guarding him and focusing on him cutting but before that, he was more than fine.

Edited March 21, 2022 by NBASupes

[kg01]

Luk a would be fine here but, know what?  HE AIN'T HERE!

That's over and done.  Why do y'all keep talking about it?  It's a waste of time.

[Diesel]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What does this have to do with wins and losses?

As much as this thread does...

We lost that game yesterday because of rebounding.  We were outrebounded 54 to 40.   I can also say Turnovers..  But mostly rebounds. 

Yet... this morning, we get this thread that says... Trae is the problem. 

The funny thing... I saw the Mitten in the lane snatching a rebound from a 7 footer (twice) yesterday.  I wish I could say the same for our wings. 

 

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Man if Luka was in Atlanta, he would be a star. I don't buy that Luka is not a star rubbish.

I didn't say Luka is not a star.  I'm saying that Luka is a Diva.  He's not the star for us.

 

 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

We aren't contenders, but to say that is because of Young and the impossibility to build a team around him is a pretty huge stretch. Who played yesterday on the Hawks who is even in the aproximate realm of All Star level outside of Trae Young? Clint is the only guy that would even get consideration. So let's not act like we are squandoring a contender with Trae, that's insane. Hunter in his career without Trae has been a calamity on offense with a FG% in the low 30s. He's not going to "blossom" playing somewhere else if he can't do it here. Huerter is what he is, a bench type piece that can get hot, one way player. Period. Bogi is the closest thing we have had as far as a secondary offensive "star" but he is wildly inconsistent. When he is on btw the Hawks are almost impossible to beat. Bogi had the best stretch of his career BY FAR playing next to Trae last year.

P.S. since the Covid dark days trough the Hawks are 18-11 in their last 29 games. That's .620% which would be second seed in the east. If the Hawks hadn't had to struggle with another year of a plethora of injuries and the ridiculous two week stretch of playing with a team full of players we nabbed straight outta the corner of the street, this thread wouldn't exist. Yes, the Hawks have blown a few winnable games during the last 29 game stretch, but the expectation that we should be "running the table" and winning every game is perhaps, not realistic? We are playing without Collins, Trae young is clearly battling through injury the last couple of games he has played, and believe it or not that teams we play against are maybe not chopped liver?

I still believe Hunter can be a broader line All Star if he played for a team like the Jazz. He will never be shit with Trae that's consistent. I still believe in the right situation, he's a 35 win guy. 

Kevin a 6th man at best to me type. I just think he's more all around than those on this board think. 

[Peoriabird]

12 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

 Bogi is the closest thing we have had as far as a secondary offensive "star"

If you put like that then I retract my statement!  But in all seriousness what does Luka have on his team? The pelican are in the same spot as the Hawks so who do they have?  Do they even have an all star on their team? There have been plenty of one man bands carrying their teams to championship contenders and many talk about Trae like he is one of them. He isn't there yet.

[Mikey]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let me explain my point.

LUKA is not the star for Atlanta... Trae is...

1.  There's the Historic Nature of Trae's accomplishments.

Trae has a lot of historic accomplishments already in his 4th year.  He walks the walk...   I won't go through them all but he's been mentioned in circles with Jordan, Lebron, and Oscar Robertson.. and he has also been mentioned in circles all by himself... things that no other player has done.   

2.  There's the fact that you can't say that he's like any other player...

He's been called a clone of Nash...  Nash was not the scorer that Trae is.  He's been called a clone of AI.. Ai was not the passer that Trae is... Trae is a freakin UNICORN.

3.  Atlanta needs a Personality.....

Something that Luka can't provide.   Trae is the personality that we need.  After Joe Cool and Matty Ice.. guys who played very well but never really sparked the fans interest...  Trae is the guy that our city has been waiting on since Dominique.   He's loud.  He's confident.  He talks his shit.. and he backs it up...  He's the littlest guy in the game that garners the most respect.  That represent our city.   All of the people who cry that we don't have Luka... do you see the Diva that Luka is?  Luka has already gotten one coach fired and another star player traded.   Luka would have gone back to Europe or forced us to trade him by now...  TRAE IS ATLANTA...

 

 

I always think this take is also stupid. "Atlanta needs personality'

No they just need someone to wrap their arms around who will win games. You think Quavo and all those guys would not wrap their arms around Luka who would be putting up as crazy stat lines??

The whole personality notion is so stupid whenever someone says it. This is a basketball city and the hawks are still trash in attendance because they don't put out a winner.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

As much as this thread does...

We lost that game yesterday because of rebounding.  We were outrebounded 54 to 40.   I can also say Turnovers..  But mostly rebounds. 

Yet... this morning, we get this thread that says... Trae is the problem. 

The funny thing... I say the Mitten in the lane snatching a rebound from a 7 footer (twice) yesterday.  I wish I could say the same for our wings. 

 

Dallas, Philly, and Chicago are worse rebounding teams and they are way better than us. Rebounding is not that big of a deal. Cleveland and Golden State used to whoop up on the league being poor rebounding teams. 

 

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/rebounding/?sort=REB&dir=-1

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I didn't say Luka is not a star.  I'm saying that Luka is a Diva.  He's not the star for us.

 

 

What? That makes no sense.

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

There have been plenty of one man bands carrying their teams to championship contenders

Who?

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

If you put like that then I retract my statement!  But in all seriousness what does Luka have on his team? The person are in the same spot as the Hawks so who do they have?  Do they even have an all star on their team? There have been plenty of one man bands carrying their teams to championship contenders and many talk about Trae like he is one of them. He isn't there yet.

Trae has gone further than Luka and Ja.  PERIOD.

Both Luka and Ja has had teams that were built up to cover their deficiencies.  Trae has not.   Trae has been given a team that should match his ability by giving him outside shooters, but our outside shooters are the most streaky outside shooters in history.  In Brunson, Smith, and Bullock.. Luka got some 3 and D players.   Ja has a team that can win without him whoose calling card is defense.   We have 3 guys who are one trick ponies... they shoot from outside.   Kev is allergic to the inside.   Bogi plays horrible defense.  And Hunter... when he's not on the IL is inconsistent at everything. 

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

If you put like that then I retract my statement!  But in all seriousness what does Luka have on his team? The person are in the same spot as the Hawks so who do they have?  Do they even have an all star on their team? There have been plenty of one man bands carrying their teams to championship contenders and many talk about Trae like he is one of them. He isn't there yet.

The Mavericks team is build around defense and that's how they win games. Max Klieber,  DFS, Reggie Bulock,, Josh Green and Ntilikina are all top 50 defenders this year in Raptor and  offensively Jalen Brunson is averaging 18-6 per 36 mins on 50% shooting. They also didn't lose 9/10s of their team for two weeks.

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I always think this take is also stupid. "Atlanta needs personality'

No they just need someone to wrap their arms around who will win games. You think Quavo and all those guys would not wrap their arms around Luka who would be putting up as crazy stat lines??

The whole personality notion is so stupid whenever someone says it. This is a basketball city and the hawks are still trash in attendance because they don't put out a winner.

Why didn't ISOJOE and his 7 allstar appearances work for the city??  They booed Joe.

Why is there not one person from our previous 60 win team that is/was beloved by the city??  The city had more love for Josh Smith than they had for any of those guys on the 60 win team until Josh Smith got Boneheaded.  None of the 60 win guys reached the love level that Josh had after winning the slam dunk contest... AND JOSH NEVER WON NOTHING in Comparison