The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, akay said:

Insiders here have called pretty much every major move months in advance, unfortunate they couldn't do a few hours lol 

Like John/Capela to Phoenix for Ayton or to Utah for Gobert?  John and 3 picks for Murray.  Which one of those predictions materialized. What about the Gallo for Randle?  Donavan Mitchell? Now the Durant Proposals?  I thought they all concluded that Capela was a goner weeks ago

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Other teams have way more draft pick and expiring contract than us.  So who is this mistery trade partner?

I am not trying to be sarcastic or rude but if I could say then I would say. We have two or three potential trades we are discussing. There is a good chance we simply keep those two players and that pick. I will never share something that a source has told me not to share. 

[RandomFan]

11 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Nah, he did say Kev had more trade value, but that we wanted to keep him in a Hawks uniform because of his team friendly contract.

There were no indications given that we WANTED to move him. Only that other teams wanted him.

That subtle difference plays in to people’s disappointment when the return doesn’t seem to match what we thought his value was based on their reports. Similar to the Cam trade. When you tell us for months that we like certain players too much to ever give them away for nothing, then they get traded for expirings, I think the confusion is understandable. 

And I don’t mind the Kev deal, just pointing out my observations.

I'd like to point out the primary return is the 1st round pick, not the expiring contracts. Although redistributing our contract allocation was obviously a perk of the trade.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I am not trying to be sarcastic or rude but if I could say then I would say. We have two or three potential trades we are discussing. There is a good chance we simply keep those two players and that pick. I will never share something that a source has told me not to share. 

1st of all, I didn't ask for the specific trade.  I only asked for the potential trade partners but anyway...no problem.

[RandomFan]

33 minutes ago, akay said:

Is the offense gonna remain the same with Murray at the 2 instead of a good shooter? 

The strengths of the roster are already different than last year with Kev/Gallo(jc prolly), and Murray/Holidays /Harkless in.

Don't think you can just assume we'll be playing the same type of ball with pretty different personnel.

It feels like we're giving up shooting for better defense and toughness 

Feel like I've posted this about 10 times already, so sorry for those that are seeing it again. 

"offense comes from the exceptional creation at guard, big men that can finish, wings that support"

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Then why have the insiders started a trade rumor thread only to predict trades that never happen and miss trades that do?

You mean the big post I made earlier in the thread where my source told me in early June we were trading for an All Star player and, oh wait, we traded for an All Star player? You mean like that? Or when we told people that we were out on Gobert because of the reports the Hawks FO got back were not sounding good about his fit? 

I was told about the Kevin trade the morning it happened and told not to say anything. I can't share things I'm told not to share. I'm sorry if the free inside information the three of us provide is not to your liking but it is what it is.

 

[AHF]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

No.

Here is what is exhausting. You don't even know "exhausting."

"Exhausting" is laying out a conclusion, laying out the logic that leads to that conclusion...

only for others to come along after that, and not even engage the logic leading to the conclusion in their attempt to dismiss the conclusion.

They just... you just.. dismiss it. And you pretend that's good enough.

No.

Debunk away, if you can.

If.

But dismissiveness isn't an argument. Dismissiveness is just dismissiveness.

It's an attitude that gives a person leash to feel comfortable and self-satisfied... to wall-off the logic, and pretend his/her own conclusion is stout, even when it's glaringly, vividly, loudly not the case.

 

I've established precisely why the Real Hawks' .653 is the correct measurement of this roster we've had.

 

The only semi-rational attempt to debunk that has amounted to a single retort...

"But what about the MIA series?!? How on earth can you not take that to implode the regular season results?!?"

And that retort has been thoroughly debunked by the facts of the context of that series. Thoroughly.

Every time we've went down that road, the "retorters" have had no answer to that. That is to their credit. They didn't make something up and try to extend the discussion. They leave the conversation because who can argue the facts that we were in an incredibly bad place (again, due to the Great Recession and Gumbo Hawks) and we were facing a team who Real Hawks could more than match offensively (given the accumulated evidence of 60 2021-22 regular season games), but were not even barely in the same universe with them defensively.

Please stop. Or engage in a substantive conversation that actually wrestles with the evidence and the facts.

My issue was that your standard was too narrow and seemed arbitrary to me since it didn’t account for injuries and other losses that didn’t result in a gleague player starting.  (I also thought total minutes played by gleague players was perhaps a better standard regardless of whether the player(s) started or came off the bench, etc.)  I don’t find it to be meaningless - just too much of a puddle situation.

[Cwell]

4 hours ago, terrell said:

Hes always hurt it seems..

When was the last Hawk player to make All Rookie team not named Trae Young?

We just traded him. Kevin made 2nd team when Trae made 1st

[Sothron]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

1st of all, I didn't ask for the specific trade.  I only asked for the potential trade partners but anyway...no problem.

You don't see how naming teams would pretty much be a dead give away on players being traded? Or that would violate the fact I was told do not repeat? I wish I could tell you. 

Actually, I take that back. One of them is common knowledge at this point. One of the potential places is Brooklyn for either KD or Ben. We are in KD's top five but not higher than that. Trae wants to get Ben but the Nets know his value is at an all time low and want to keep him. We're probably closer to making a Ben trade but based on what I'm hearing from my two sources I still don't think a trade will happen with the Nets.

The last part is my speculation to be fair.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

You mean the big post I made earlier in the thread where my source told me in early June we were trading for an All Star player and, oh wait, we traded for an All Star player? You mean like that? Or when we told people that we were out on Gobert because of the reports the Hawks FO got back were not sounding good about his fit? 

I was told about the Kevin trade the morning it happened and told not to say anything. I can't share things I'm told not to share. I'm sorry if the free inside information the three of us provide is not to your liking but it is what it is.

 

So you are choosing to ignore all of the junk that has been on this thread from Collins for a lottery pick to him plus Capela for Ayton/Gobert to Package deal for Durant or Okungwu starting a power forward.  OK...No problem

[theheroatl]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

You don't see how naming teams would pretty much be a dead give away on players being traded? Or that would violate the fact I was told do not repeat? I wish I could tell you. 

Actually, I take that back. One of them is common knowledge at this point. One of the potential places is Brooklyn for either KD or Ben. We are in KD's top five but not higher than that. Trae wants to get Ben but the Nets know his value is at an all time low and want to keep him. We're probably closer to making a Ben trade but based on what I'm hearing from my two sources I still don't think a trade will happen with the Nets.

The last part is my speculation to be fair.

What is KD's top 5 and how do you know that? I have only seen Phoenix and Miami. Are you insinuating that you have better sources than the national media? There is always so much confusion there from hypotheticals.

Zach Klein posted that we are checking in on KD. I have NEVER seen anything remotely close that we are interested in Simmons since the trade deadline.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

Um.

JJ???

Isn't it a given that JJ's going to be granted the chance to take Gallo's minutes? Think that's even a McM or Schlenk quote (???).

I’m up for a 1 month avatar bet.  Whichever player plays more minutes in the games where they are both on the roster and not sidelined with injury wins the bet.  JJ vs Justin Holiday.  And I’ll be hoping to lose!

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Actually, I take that back. One of them is common knowledge at this point. One of the potential places is Brooklyn for either KD or Ben. We are in KD's top five but not higher than that. Trae wants to get Ben but the Nets know his value is at an all time low and want to keep him. We're probably closer to making a Ben trade but based on what I'm hearing from my two sources I still don't think a trade will happen with the Nets.

The last part is my speculation to be fair.

So this is the secret that will never happen that you couldn't reveal?  The Hawks no chance to land Durant!  I mean No Chance.  A Simmons trade would make no sense!  No wonder your source want to keep that a secret.

[Sothron]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So you are choosing to ignore all of the junk that has been on this thread from Collins for a lottery pick to him plus Capela for Ayton/Gobert to Package deal for Durant or Okungwu starting a power forward.  OK...No problem

What junk? I'm not responsible for what other people post. I have been plain about what I've heard and what I've shared when it comes to my sources. All three of us reported that Trae went to the front office and fought to keep Capela. I said after that happened that Capela went from "100% gone" to "probably gone" but he's still here. The last I heard we were still interested in Ayton but at less than a max. Which, this is my speculation, means Phoenix would just simply match it.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

What is KD's top 5 and how do you know that? I have only seen Phoenix and Miami. Are you insinuating that you have better sources than the national media? There is always so much confusion there from hypotheticals.

Zach Klein posted that we are checking in on KD. I have NEVER seen anything remotely close that we are interested in Simmons since the trade deadline.

Seriously!!!  What a bunch of BS.  Durant ain't even thinking about the Hawks!

[Sothron]

6 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

What is KD's top 5 and how do you know that? I have only seen Phoenix and Miami. Are you insinuating that you have better sources than the national media? There is always so much confusion there from hypotheticals.

Zach Klein posted that we are checking in on KD. I have NEVER seen anything remotely close that we are interested in Simmons since the trade deadline.

I know that we are in his top five because two sources told me Atlanta was in his top five. Phoenix and Miami are his first two picks, Atlanta is top five and that's three teams. I don't know who the other teams are in his top five and frankly since Atlanta isn't the top pick I don't think it really matters to us as Hawks fans.

You aren't paying attention to this thread since I believe all three of us have said the Hawks are still interested in Ben. Trae is driving that bus.

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Seriously!!!  What a bunch of BS.  Durant ain't even thinking about the Hawks!

Ok, you ask for information, I give you information and you call it BS. Please ignore my posts going forwards.

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Ok, you ask for information, I give you information and you call it BS. Please ignore my posts going forwards.

Best advice you've ever given!

[sturt]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

My issue was that your standard was too narrow and seemed arbitrary to me since it didn’t account for injuries and other losses that didn’t result in a gleague player starting.  (I also thought total minutes played by gleague players was perhaps a better standard regardless of whether the player(s) started or came off the bench, etc.)  I don’t find it to be meaningless - just too much of a puddle situation.

First, I don't find your assertion to be meaningless, but just too constrained to find the perfect data-to-outcomes fit, and in doing that, missing the general good and valid.

Second, related, pardon the observation that I find "seemed arbitrary" to be an odd take.

Social scientists are trained to stare at the data, and just spend some time soaking all... the quantitative as well as the qualitative... into their brains. That's a vital stage because it grants some direction in figuring out not only what the viable options are, but even more fundamental, what the most salient questions are.

That's what happened here in this case. So, it was the very opposite of arbitrary.

Iow... there may be more precise ways of assessing the data-to-outcomes fit. But given that one can become so nerdy in seeking out such high definition analysis... and that that, in turn, can result in such high-fallutin intricate surgical research-journal type essay... doesn't seem to be a net positive.

Rather, the "how many games did a non-rotation player start" is more than adequate... there could be greater fits, but this is a solid, good fit, rather easily digestible by Joe or Jane Hawks Fan.

[deester11]

I think the guys sharing information do so with as much as they can give.  The Hawk's mode of operandi seems to be stealth with a mix of bs and reality stirred into a pot of nothing.   I think it's a service to us all that they share what they can.  

The disappointment lies in the finality of the hawk's to close the deal.  Schlenk and company have whiffed on a few things because they felt that the team would be at a much higher plane than the dud they trotted out last year. To wit...the trade deadline was a failure last year . The rumors and suggestions that the hawk's were close to several deals leads me to believe that for as good as the sources may be, the FO is apt to switch gears at a quick pace.  Not the fault of any of the information guys.  As a fan..it does suck to be "close" but no cigar.  

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So this is the secret that will never happen that you couldn't reveal?  The Hawks no chance to land Durant!  I mean No Chance.  A Simmons trade would make no sense!  No wonder your source want to keep that a secret.

The secret trade you are talking about was the Murray trade. It already happened. I think that was mentioned and verified by @thecampster earlier in this thread.