John Collins trade watch

[Peoriabird]

Since there are so many report about John being traded even after not being included in the Murray trade, I though I would make a separate thread in case there is some breaking news or rumor from our insiders indicating an imminent trade. Personally, I have never understood the notion that Collins has to go but apparently I'm in the minority. If we are out of the Gobert/Ayton sweep stakes, what other trades would even make sense? Draft picks just to get under the luxury Tax? Would it not make more sense to use Bogi's contract to reduce the pay roll instead? Or why not just wait until the trade deadline. It just seems as though the Hawks are shooting themselves in the foot devaluing John  by making it obvious that John is not a part of the Hawk's future.

[JayBirdHawk]

[Final_quest]

It's complex for sure.  JC is an awesome player and person.  I think the dollars and the fit are part of this, but also he has value.  Bogi's salary is smaller and is off our books quicker.  That said, I'm not sure moving Collins is something we are definitely doing.   

We just had a killer trade with Murray and we still have a full offseason with more moves coming.  

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

It's complex for sure.  JC is an awesome player and person.  I think the dollars and the fit are part of this, but also he has value.  Bogi's salary is smaller and is off our books quicker.  That said, I'm not sure moving Collins is something we are definitely doing.   

We just had a killer trade with Murray and we still have a full offseason with more moves coming.  

Hope you are right but one of the insiders is still predicting an Ayton trade, Okungwu at power forward while John is traded for a protected 1st and a back up center.

[REHawksFan]

I would think JC has more value than Bogie as he's the better player and still young.  Yes, his contract is bigger and longer than Bogie's but I would think most teams would still rather take on JC than Bogie.  So maybe they shop JC more so because he's the asset that will bring the biggest return, theoretically.  Still need to find the right match.

Personally, I would prefer to NOT trade JC unless it's part of a package to get an elite player that clearly upgrades the roster. Not sure who that would be though. Just don't like the idea of dumping a player of JC's value for money reasons.  

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

I would think JC has more value than Bogie as he's the better player and still young.  Yes, his contract is bigger and longer than Bogie's but I would think most teams would still rather take on JC than Bogie.  So maybe they shop JC more so because he's the asset that will bring the biggest return, theoretically. 

 

What else is this team looking for in return and who would help the Hawks more than Collins at this point? If we are merely trying to reduce the pay roll who cares what the return is?

[Hawkmoor]

51 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Since there are so many report about John being traded even after not being included in the Murray trade, I though I would make a separate thread in case there is some breaking news or rumor from our insiders indicating an imminent trade. Personally, I have never understood the notion that Collins has to go but apparently I'm in the minority. If we are out of the Gobert/Ayton sweep stakes, what other trades would even make sense? Draft picks just to get under the luxury Tax? Would it not make more sense to use Bogi's contract to reduce the pay roll instead? Or why not just wait until the trade deadline. It just seems as though the Hawks are shooting themselves in the foot devaluing John  by making it obvious that John is not a part of the Hawk's future.

I believe and could be wrong that there might be too much water under the bus with John.  It also appears that he wants to be featured more in the offense ( stepping back and letting Clint be the pick and roll guy).  The Hawks know he is very valuable which is why he hasn't been traded yet.

[HawkItus]

I mean let's say John is a B player. If you can trade him for a back up PF and another co defensive wing you do it. Say we can get a poor man's Portis and Tucker for JC. We are contenders. 

[JayBirdHawk]

25 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What else is this team looking for in return and who would help the Hawks more than Collins at this point? If we are merely trying to reduce the pay roll who cares what the return is?

This is why the Collins straight up for a lottery pick trade didn't make sense, it would have had to be part of a larger deal to make the team and PF position better.

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, HawkItus said:

Say we can get a poor man's Portis and Tucker for JC.

How poor are they though?

[ShooterSays]

If we're keeping Cap, I'd want to keep JC.

If we're bringing Ayton in, I'm good trading JC because there's a lot of overlap there in their games. Unleash OO.

[GThawks3]

9 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If we're keeping Cap, I'd want to keep JC.

If we're bringing Ayton in, I'm good trading JC because there's a lot of overlap there in their games. Unleash OO.

I think JC and Cap overlap more. At least offensively. 
 

I hope hawks keep him and don’t sell low. Don’t want a downgrade and a pick. 

[HawkItus]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How poor are they though?

Look, both of them were journey men before the championship luster. So not too poor.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, HawkItus said:

Look, both of them were journey men before the championship luster. So not too poor.

Are you saying Portis and Tucker or lesser players than them?

[Spud2nique]

17 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Unleash OO.

Yes sir!

[Spud2nique]

Just waiting on Sturt and his Keurig. Once he gets lit on ️ then we got a show! Leggggooo! 
 

 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Are you saying Portis and Tucker or lesser players than them?

I think he is saying not literally them but people at that level.

 

Personally, I hope we can end up in a place where we've kept JC and further enhanced the roster this offseason.  I just think JC fits easily on about any roster, he has added elements big and small to his game every year, and I'd love to see him be a part of our next stage of success as our Horace Grant type player.  Seems like if we were doing an Ayton deal or something that JC wouldn't necessarily need to be part of that package (and in that deal in particular would actually be problematic)  and feel we can "dump" him at pretty much any time so why not see how the new crew takes form before dealing him for a journeyman type of player?

[marco102]

I believe Collins will be here to start the season and Bogi will be the one moved, IF they want to upgrade the center position and not have a log jam at shooting guard. 

Moving Collins makes much less sense to me right now.

Edited June 30, 2022 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

38 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I believe and could be wrong that there might be too much water under the bus with John.  It also appears that he wants to be featured more in the offense ( stepping back and letting Clint be the pick and roll guy).  The Hawks know he is very valuable which is why he hasn't been traded yet.

What is meant by the phrase " He wants to be featured in the offense" mean? What evidence do you have that supports this assertion?

[RedDawg#8]

I think we are doing too much at this point. 

There are no upgrades out there for us at PF. We have only been linked to Centers via trade. I don’t see how we add a 30 million dollar center to the roster and keep Capela.

Yet somehow it’s still JC we are focusing on.

We have too many wings and only one starting caliber PF. What are we really talking about here?

We could literally just bring back Wright right now and be done tweaking. We would still have the flexibility to make moves as needed during the season if we don’t like the available trades.

Trae, Wright, Coop

Murray, Bogi, Martin, Mays

Dre, Kev, AJ

JC, JJ

CC, OO

We have a need for some reserve bigs but that’s about it.