Ayton, Capela, or Gobert

[HawkingAwesome]

so what's the timeline on getting ayton if that's the move? doesn't sign and trades limit what the hawks can do later? what about trae saying he wants cap here?

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Its 1 year but functionally it might as well be the whole contract.

1st year will lock you in at under $156 million.  Because all of our contracts are "long" and we have to extend Hunter, we won't be able to offer new players more than the minimum. Unless you trade others to get under the apron, you can't even use the Tax Payer MLE because that hard caps you too and we'd be over the apron if we use it.  LT + T-MLE = apron.

 

So we'd essentially only be able to increase our "$155 payroll" by extending our own players and signing minimum contracts?

[Hawkmoor]

From that group, Ayton.

[ShooterSays]

I’m terrible with how the salary cap works. Can someone explain if a 3 team trade could work bringing Ayton in, sending Cap to PHO, and sending JC to a third team?

[shakes]

1.  Gobert

2.  Capela

3.  Okongwu

4  Ayton I guess

 

The answer is Gobert if we can get him for a reasonable price.   i.e. Capela/Bogi or Huerter and a 1RP.

If not then the answer is Capela.

 

Ayton's total lack of IQ scares the crap out of me considering our team needs a center who can be a defensive captain.

[thecampster]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So we'd essentially only be able to increase our "$155 payroll" by extending our own players and signing minimum contracts?

Pretty much...because after the 1 year expires, the multiple max contracts and the Hunter extension push you over that tax level every year. So unless you bundle and trade at 125% you can't increase salary via signing.

[Spud2nique]

30 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think we need a 'pole'

NOT IT! (In making it I don’t wanna be known as the “pole dude”…) 

[thecampster]

@JayBirdHawk

For the Gobert vs Ayton math folks.

Trade Capela for Ayton....the salaries match for trading purposes but Ayton will make 11 million more so for Cap purposes, our cap goes up $11 million pushing us right up to the apron meaning we have to give up 1 high priced player in a salary dump anyway (JC, Bogi, Huerter). But you are still over the cap if you dump Bogi for a pick and save $7 million over trading for Gobert. But you now have the limit of the Apron you can't exceed, even at the trade deadline/waiver wire deadline.

Trade Capela + Bogi for Gobert = Salary hit is pretty much zero.  From a flexibility standpoint, you can still use your tax payer MLE, you can sign players off the waiver wire without restriction at the trade deadline and you can take back 125% salaries at the trade deadline because there is no limit if you don't use that MLE.

 

From a flexibility standpoint, even though Ayton is technically cheaper by $7 mil, you are limited for a year in flexibility. Neither really changes your flexibility after that.

Edited June 30, 2022 by thecampster

[Ropadope]

My biggest concern at this point for this team is physicality. I feel like we’re missing the presence and toughness that Miami and Boston showed. Is that just because of how Miami manhandled us in the playoffs? Or is it something this team needs to address in terms of personnel. I just wish Hunter was a better rebounder and had some dog in him. 

[thecampster]

One side note: if you trade for either they are both locked in through 25-26, but Gobert's last year is a player option which he could technically opt out of freeing up salary room a year early.

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, shakes said:

1.  Gobert

2.  Capela

3.  Okongwu

4  Ayton I guess

 

The answer is Gobert if we can get him for a reasonable price.   i.e. Capela/Bogi or Huerter and a 1RP.

If not then the answer is Capela.

 

Ayton's total lack of IQ scares the crap out of me considering our team needs a center who can be a defensive captain.

Due to his contract, "reasonable" is out the window on Gobert.

[Peoriabird]

Capela is the right price for a center on a contender.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Capela is the right price for a center on a contender.

That’s us! 

[aali34]

10 minutes ago, Ropadope said:

My biggest concern at this point for this team is physicality. I feel like we’re missing the presence and toughness that Miami and Boston showed. Is that just because of how Miami manhandled us in the playoffs? Or is it something this team needs to address in terms of personnel. I just wish Hunter was a better rebounder and had some dog in him. 

You're gonna love Murray then.

[Ropadope]

26 minutes ago, aali34 said:

You're gonna love Murray then.

I’m sure he’s a great addition. But really, just he and Capela in the starting unit are defensive minded. And who other than Capela has a physical presence?  

[MarylandHawk]

My vote is mostly about OO17. I like OO17 and Ayton starting better than any other combination. 

[nathan2331]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

Ayton's total lack of IQ scares the crap out of me considering our team needs a center who can be a defensive captain.

So you really think the Suns have made the Finals and have had one of the best records in the West recently with a defensive liability at C?

Edited June 30, 2022 by nathan2331

[marco102]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Its 1 year but functionally it might as well be the whole contract.

1st year will lock you in at under $156 million.  Because all of our contracts are "long" and we have to extend Hunter, we won't be able to offer new players more than the minimum. Unless you trade others to get under the apron, you can't even use the Tax Payer MLE because that hard caps you too and we'd be over the apron if we use it.  LT + T-MLE = apron.

 

But this would happen with any player after this year.  The fact that they increase Hunter's salary will push them into the tax.

I don't think it's fair to say oh you get Ayton and you have to worry about the tax apron every year because of his trade.  After this year, that will be the case with Gobert or any player because the Hawks are going to be in the tax. 

The tax apron definitely impacts the Hawks this year with the trade because you can't go above it. However, in future years you can go above it with players on your roster because of their bird rights. 

 

 

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

But this would happen with any player after this year.  The fact that they increase Hunter's salary will push them into the tax.

I don't think it's fair to say oh you get Ayton and you have to worry about the tax apron every year because of his trade.  After this year, that will be the case with Gobert or any player because the Hawks are going to be in the tax. 

The tax apron definitely impacts the Hawks this year with the trade because you can't go above it. However, in future years you can go above it with players on your roster because of their bird rights. 

 

 

Its fair because it effectively locks us "X" salary range this year.  Stuck at around $156 million.  I know I'm saying this clearly but a few aren't understanding.  Whatever the salary ends up this year becomes the baseline for future years with trapeze work needing to be done to expand that amount in future years from the $156mil baseline.  Using the SNT locks us in at that baseline.

Spending on Gobert might be $165 million or more  but that becomes the baseline to work from.  Next year we start in the salary range of the $165 when you take into account whatever empty roster slots get filled.  If you want to trade Gobert later, you have that much salary to send out if the fit isn't right, its overkill.  But if you don't get that budget in this year, you will lose it. Its a flexibility thing.

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Its fair because it effectively locks us "X" salary range this year.  Stuck at around $156 million.  I know I'm saying this clearly but a few aren't understanding.  Whatever the salary ends up this year becomes the baseline for future years with trapeze work needing to be done to expand that amount in future years from the $156mil baseline.  Using the SNT locks us in at that baseline.

Spending on Gobert might be $165 million or more  but that becomes the baseline to work from.  Next year we start in the salary range of the $165 when you take into account whatever empty roster slots get filled.  If you want to trade Gobert later, you have that much salary to send out if the fit isn't right, its overkill.  But if you don't get that budget in this year, you will lose it. Its a flexibility thing.

But again, after this year, you're not locked in at the tax apron which is what a sign and trade does for Ayton this year. 

In future years, you can still go above it to sign your own players whereas if it occurred this year the team is capped at the tax apron. That's the distinction I'm trying to clarify.  

The way you wrote it before you're saying your stuck at the tax apron for every future year after the trade, but you're not because you can clear it to sign OO, Hunter, JJ, Cooper, and AG. 

I'll add you'll have one hell of a tax bill though which practically will not happen unless championships are won. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by marco102