The Rise of JC!!

[Sothron]

14 minutes ago, sturt said:

I have to allow that I trust you on this one... but I have to say, they hide it pretty well... when they talk about each other, that's not something I detect, and when they're on the floor, they acknowledge each others' good plays a lot. I suppose that's just them overcompensating, but again, they're pretty good at that, then.

They are professional. They have never said anything really negative about each other. But in the locker room and in practice or talking among people in the franchise...no, they are not friends. 

Trae is a very unforgiving person. It is to a degree I would say it is a character flaw. He carries grudges and never lets them go. When JC complained and occasionally still complains about how the offense stagnates or isn't moving the ball enough Trae takes that very personally. With good reason because John is mostly talk to Trae and to the coaching staff but mostly Trae. John hates bad shots and let's just say Trae is known for putting up 30 foot shots or going into iso mode.

JC is not the only player on the Hawks that has a problem with Trae. Last season there was beef between Hunter and Trae. Trae barked at Bogi when Bogi first got here and when Bogi barked right back it caught him by surprise but then he liked Bogi after it because Bogi didn't criticize Trae, he just stood up for himself.

Trae is a modern day superstar. He doesn't handle criticize well from anyone including teammates. That's just how he works. Trae has never wanted Collins gone off the team per se but when you have to trade one of three guys to stay under the LT and one of those three guys is Collins its pretty easy for Trae to sign off on trading Collins over two guys he's friends with.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Trae is a very unforgiving person. It is to a degree I would say it is a character flaw. He carries grudges and never lets them go

He can't go through life like this. 

[Wretch]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

They are professional. They have never said anything really negative about each other. But in the locker room and in practice or talking among people in the franchise...no, they are not friends. 

Trae is a very unforgiving person. It is to a degree I would say it is a character flaw. He carries grudges and never lets them go. When JC complained and occasionally still complains about how the offense stagnates or isn't moving the ball enough Trae takes that very personally. With good reason because John is mostly talk to Trae and to the coaching staff but mostly Trae. John hates bad shots and let's just say Trae is known for putting up 30 foot shots or going into iso mode.

JC is not the only player on the Hawks that has a problem with Trae. Last season there was beef between Hunter and Trae. Trae barked at Bogi when Bogi first got here and when Bogi barked right back it caught him by surprise but then he liked Bogi after it because Bogi didn't criticize Trae, he just stood up for himself.

Trae is a modern day superstar. He doesn't handle criticize well from anyone including teammates. That's just how he works. Trae has never wanted Collins gone off the team per se but when you have to trade one of three guys to stay under the LT and one of those three guys is Collins its pretty easy for Trae to sign off on trading Collins over two guys he's friends with.

I don't expect any locker room is perfect.  Golden State just won a championship and Draymond hit Jordan Poole like he just any old dude off the street.  It's gotta be wild managing the massive egos of dudes who have all reached the top of the mountain.  Trae needs some say in how this team is built, especially with respect to its chemistry.  None of us wants to see LeGM 2.0 though. 

Unless he's as good at evaluating talent as he is at the game, then he's only going to shoot himself in the foot.

[JayBirdHawk]

15 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Last season there was beef between Hunter and Trae.

What was this about?

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Trae barked at Bogi when Bogi first got here and when Bogi barked right back it caught him by surprise but then he liked Bogi after it because Bogi didn't criticize Trae, he just stood up for himself.

I remember Bogi talked about something like this between the two of them.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He can't go through life like this. 

Yeah, holding grudges against folks is just bad.  I mean, who does that?

[warcore]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What was this about?

My guess is something to do with Trae not passing him the ball because Trae knows he won't pass it back. Or if he does, it'll be a turnover. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Yeah, holding grudges against folks is just bad.  I mean, who does that?

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What was this about?

not allowed to go into details but some of it was on court and some of it was off court. they are cool with each other now though

[Sothron]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He can't go through life like this. 

I agree. I'm actually like that personally and it took years for me to try and let things go better. Trae's mentality of using perceived slights to make him play better is one thing but he really does not let anything go. You can see this when he's in any interview where someone asks him a question he doesn't like. Just look at his face and listen to his reaction. It speaks for itself. 

now take that and imagine how it is when there's no cameras or media types around. 

[Gray Mule]

FORGIVENESS

In the bible we read, as part of the Lord's prayer, which we are to use as our model:

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Translation:  We are asking God to forgive us in the same way and manner we forgive others.  Someone needs to remind Trae that holding a grudge is only hurting him.  Let it go!  Grow up!

Remember the golden rule?  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

End of surmon.

[macdaddy]

This is why you have to have strong vets around to cut through the BS.  They don't even have to be great players.  This is why Solo and Dedmon offered some locker room stability.  None of the vets we have now are going to provide that.  

We desperately need some stability and success here or the whole situation could implode.  I know that seems like overreaction based on rumors but we aren't exactly flush with star talent here.  

[sturt]

18 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

None of the vets we have now

https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2020/5/8/21248226/derrick-favors-zion-williamson-lonzo-brandon-ingram-nba-new-orleans-pelicans-jrue-david-griffin

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

They are professional. They have never said anything really negative about each other. But in the locker room and in practice or talking among people in the franchise...no, they are not friends. 

Trae is a very unforgiving person. It is to a degree I would say it is a character flaw. He carries grudges and never lets them go. When JC complained and occasionally still complains about how the offense stagnates or isn't moving the ball enough Trae takes that very personally. With good reason because John is mostly talk to Trae and to the coaching staff but mostly Trae. John hates bad shots and let's just say Trae is known for putting up 30 foot shots or going into iso mode.

JC is not the only player on the Hawks that has a problem with Trae. Last season there was beef between Hunter and Trae. Trae barked at Bogi when Bogi first got here and when Bogi barked right back it caught him by surprise but then he liked Bogi after it because Bogi didn't criticize Trae, he just stood up for himself.

Trae is a modern day superstar. He doesn't handle criticize well from anyone including teammates. That's just how he works. Trae has never wanted Collins gone off the team per se but when you have to trade one of three guys to stay under the LT and one of those three guys is Collins its pretty easy for Trae to sign off on trading Collins over two guys he's friends with.

 

Actually, he sounds like how Michael Jordan treated his Bulls teammates.  Most of your great players are A-Holes.

To Trae, it's business, never personal.

 

So if Trae is "the villain", he's Nino Brown.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Yeah, holding grudges against folks is just bad.  I mean, who does that?

 

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, Wretch said:

...but if our intent is to get out from under his contract, then we're only delaying the inevitable.  So we'll still be pissed at the return, but with fantastic bonus options like...creating unwanted distractions, fracturing the front office, and painting a wonderful image of our organization.

God forbid he goes to a great team and makes us look foolish like Huerter did.  Now we'll also have to hear about how we "let Luka go", gave away Huerter, and gave up on John Collins.  All for the ultimate prize in the NBA - saving money!  Surely that'll sell us to potential, high-profile free agents, coaches, and GMs.  Surely...

Similar things were said about Cam......almost out of the league Cam.  Right?  We would be a laughing stock, we would rue the day we traded Cam, etc.  

I like JC, but I'm going to propose a scenario where this makes sense.  The currency of the league is 1st round picks, not reasonably good PFs that have a game difficult to build around.  You have Trae and DJM long term.  Next time there is an available star to add to our roster, instead of fumbling around with limited draft capital and players signed to long term contracts you have a stable of picks to trade.  If you don't think JC is the guy that fits and you truly don't want to commit the capital to him, trade him for multiple picks.

There are other sad stories in our franchise history.  Letting Josh Smith and Al Horford walk comes to mind.  That actually happened.  We all said, "They should have traded them to get something back!". 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If JC is traded, you trade him for Siakam.   He's an All-Star caliber player on a team that is struggling like we have been.  We'd have to throw in Bogi to make the numbers work though.  Hell, even toss in a 2nd round pick 2025.

We need to trade for upgrades in talent, not future mid to late 1st round picks.

[warcore]

39 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

There are other sad stories in our franchise history.  Letting Josh Smith and Al Horford walk comes to mind.  That actually happened.  We all said, "They should have traded them to get something back!". 

Agree with most of your post but letting Josh walk was a great move. I believe Ferry spent that money on Milsap, et al. 

The Horford fiasco was Bud being the turrible GM he was.  

[Wretch]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Similar things were said about Cam......almost out of the league Cam.  Right?  We would be a laughing stock, we would rue the day we traded Cam, etc.  

I like JC, but I'm going to propose a scenario where this makes sense.  The currency of the league is 1st round picks, not reasonably good PFs that have a game difficult to build around.  You have Trae and DJM long term.  Next time there is an available star to add to our roster, instead of fumbling around with limited draft capital and players signed to long term contracts you have a stable of picks to trade.  If you don't think JC is the guy that fits and you truly don't want to commit the capital to him, trade him for multiple picks.

There are other sad stories in our franchise history.  Letting Josh Smith and Al Horford walk comes to mind.  That actually happened.  We all said, "They should have traded them to get something back!". 

I agree and I said as much in an earlier post on this thread:

7 hours ago, Wretch said:

Makes no sense.  This is either a cost saving move and/or a precursor to a bigger trade.  The latter, I'm highly doubtful of. 

I just have my doubts.  I'm not worried about Collins blowing up as much as I am getting rid of him for peanuts (that we don't actually cash in on) and having to hear how we made yet another mistake.  More importantly, if we were going to do it...we should have just done it already.  We don't need additional distractions and we certainly don't need any negative perceptions about how we run our franchise.  Not when we're finally starting to build a winning culture and shed the "irrelevant" label.

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

I agree. I'm actually like that personally and it took years for me to try and let things go better. Trae's mentality of using perceived slights to make him play better is one thing but he really does not let anything go. You can see this when he's in any interview where someone asks him a question he doesn't like. Just look at his face and listen to his reaction. It speaks for itself. 

now take that and imagine how it is when there's no cameras or media types around. 

I've also noticed that he can be baited into some bad shots.  When a defender locks in on him and really gives him the business, Trae will almost always attempt to shake him and shoot it - usually a step back.  I know he makes some of these, because he'll let them know about it...and we see that often enough.  I'd like to see some maturity in his game here...and that's, once again, shot selection.

[Wretch]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

If JC is traded, you trade him for Siakam.   He's an All-Star caliber player on a team that is struggling like we have been.  We'd have to throw in Bogi to make the numbers work though.  Hell, even toss in a 2nd round pick 2025.

We need to trade for upgrades in talent, not future mid to late 1st round picks.

Yup.  That is how contenders are built.