Official Game Thread: Timberwolves at Hawks

[macdaddy]

Our best 5 man lineup is the starting lineup and it's not particularly close.   Of the 5 man lineups with more than 50 minutes played the only player that is in each of the top 3 is Murray.    Maybe misleading, maybe not. 

Hunter, Young, and Collins are in 2 of the top 3.    OO is in 2 and Capela is in one.   

[Peoriabird]

Maybe yall just look at stats and not the actual game but Murray has been the absolute worst perimeter defender on the team while playing that stagnant brand of dribble dribble offense

[Final_quest]

The data has significantly shifted from the starters carrying the bench to the bench outperforming the starters.  I don't envy the front office to figure out what to do next.  

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

The data has significantly shifted from the starters carrying the bench to the bench outperforming the starters.  I don't envy the front office to figure out what to do next.  

We had an insanely bad bench with limited fits. Holidays, Bogi, JJ, and Okongwu to Bogi, JJ, Bey, and Okongwu and that four man unit has been amazing but none of those guys are starters. 

Was the starters that good, no. We just spammed the PnR, teams adjusted in the 4th and we got beat often. Now, we don't spam as much but the offense is hit and miss and the defense is bad. A lot of Trae's damage is done with the 2nd unit. The bench hasn't adjusted well at all to our new defensive style whereas our bench has till they got to play starters and then they struggle too.

This team reminds me of the Hardaway Jr and Sap Hawks before we blew it up but the fit issues and quality level of talent compared to the competition remind me of the playoff guarantee Hawks. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

For me.

1. Starting center is the biggest issue. Need an offensive minded starter. 

2. Moving OO to the starting 4. 

3. Keeping Bey, Griffin, and JJ as they are excellent off the pine or at least have potential. 

4. Moving from JC contract. He's not needed anymore. 

5. If there is a player Atlanta needs to get, it's Adebayo. He would be perfect next to Bey. He would fit Trae. He makes it easy on Hunter at the 3. He would be ideal too. I know it's not happening but just saying. 

6. Get a backup PG that's reliable like Delon was. 

7. Let Bogi go, he's been good to us but don't get locked into a contract when you know he has knee issues. 

8. Quin needs to have his imprint all over this team. Trae is proving to want to improve. 

9. Size, size, and size. And shooters 

Edited March 14, 2023 by NBASupes

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

And shooters 

shooters and more shooters.   I know you can say this about anyone but the number of assists Trae should have if we didn't have a bunch of bricklayers out there is insane.

[Peoriabird]

Hawks defensive rating

 

Hawks offensive rating

[Peoriabird]

Which of these needs to be fixed the most? The top 10 offense or the bottom 10 defense?

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Which of these needs to be fixed the most? The top 10 offense or the bottom 10 defense?

Offense. You got Trae. The goal is to have the goat offense every year. Defensively, as long as you have some type of reasonable scheme, you can win a lot of games

Edited March 14, 2023 by NBASupes

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Offense. You got Trae. The goal is to have the goat offense every year. Defensively, as long as you have some type of reasonable scheme, you can win a lot of games

And one of the biggest issues with our defense is our offense.   Games where we shoot like crap are the games where we give up 130 points.   Not a coincidence. 

[Gray Mule]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

And one of the biggest issues with our defense is our offense.   Games where we shoot like crap are the games where we give up 130 points.   Not a coincidence. 

Truth.  When we miss, opponent grabs the rebound and rushes down the floor with us trying to recover,  they score - - Repeat.  

[Sothron]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I was attacked relentlessly over my thoughts at that time. It's like you guys refuse to listen. We were structurally flawed. This has nothing to do with Nate, Quin, Joe, etc. This team showed us these issues in the first month and it never changed. 

Why is it, on you are full of yourself when you guys literally attacked me and was talking as if I was insanely wrong when I was right the entire time. It's one thing if I was like, I am smarter all of the time but most of the time unless I am talking to Diesel, I try to give you the benefit of doubt everytime. I am just frustrated because I was shunned, posters refused to like my posts, I was basically blackballed and now you guys want to cry foul. F that! 

I cannot claim to remember every post or thread but was it really that bad? I mean DJM's role and how he operates in an offense has completely removed JC from our offense. We basically play four on five with JC on the court as a starter. Who was attacking you like that? 

I agree we have bad fits on this team. We have a PF that has no role on our offense, a center that can only rim run on offense, a SF that can't dribble or pass and an undersized backcourt that both are shooting under 40% from three. There's some strengths as well but maybe it is just the former PG and coach's kid in me but all I see are the weaknesses.

JC has to go. Capela needs to go as well. At the very least one has to go for spacing and to then allow the other one to rim run as that at least is a viable skill set in the modern NBA. I don't know who is attacking you over that opinion but I've given JC basically an entire season to come around on his shooting and he just hasn't. We can't win consistently with two black holes on offense. You just can't.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I cannot claim to remember every post or thread but was it really that bad? I mean DJM's role and how he operates in an offense has completely removed JC from our offense. We basically play four on five with JC on the court as a starter. Who was attacking you like that? 

I agree we have bad fits on this team. We have a PF that has no role on our offense, a center that can only rim run on offense, a SF that can't dribble or pass and an undersized backcourt that both are shooting under 40% from three. There's some strengths as well but maybe it is just the former PG and coach's kid in me but all I see are the weaknesses.

JC has to go. Capela needs to go as well. At the very least one has to go for spacing and to then allow the other one to rim run as that at least is a viable skill set in the modern NBA. I don't know who is attacking you over that opinion but I've given JC basically an entire season to come around on his shooting and he just hasn't. We can't win consistently with two black holes on offense. You just can't.

I don't think I could have said it any better. This. 

[Sothron]

4 hours ago, terrell said:

But yet he remains in the starting 5... Because of that ridiculous contract.. smh

I think he will be moved in the offseason. Quin is one of the best coaches in the NBA. If he can't scheme a way for JC to have a real role in our offense with his inability to hit threes then honestly no other coach can. JC needs to go somewhere that lets him rim run and get his mid range game going because he definitely still has that plus he's a good team defender. For us with our current roster he only provides team defense and is a black hole on offense. 

I love JC so I'll defend my position on this. I'm not saying JC is a bad player because he's not but for *this* team he has no role here. Unless Capela is being moved for a center that can shoot in the offseason then JC will continue to have no role here as long as Capela is here. It is just that simple. 

[Peoriabird]

@macdaddyDidn't we shoot the lights out against Miami and lost 130-128?

[Peoriabird]

I think the Hawks shot the lights out against Boston too.

[macdaddy]

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

@macdaddyDidn't we shoot the lights out against Miami and lost 130-128?

Yeah.  But there's always a few shoot outs.   It's a good point though.  I'll dive through and see if that's an exception or not.

[SalvorMallow]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

For me.

1. Starting center is the biggest issue. Need an offensive minded starter. 

2. Moving OO to the starting 4. 

3. Keeping Bey, Griffin, and JJ as they are excellent off the pine or at least have potential. 

4. Moving from JC contract. He's not needed anymore. 

5. If there is a player Atlanta needs to get, it's Adebayo. He would be perfect next to Bey. He would fit Trae. He makes it easy on Hunter at the 3. He would be ideal too. I know it's not happening but just saying. 

6. Get a backup PG that's reliable like Delon was. 

7. Let Bogi go, he's been good to us but don't get locked into a contract when you know he has knee issues. 

8. Quin needs to have his imprint all over this team. Trae is proving to want to improve. 

9. Size, size, and size. And shooters 

What do you think about an Adebayo/Okongwu starting frontcourt? This might work if Okongwu can consistently hit threes but that isn't the reality. We still wouldn't have ideal spacing with 2 front court players that don't shoot threes. I would also be concerned about our size.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

What do you think about an Adebayo/Okongwu starting frontcourt? This might work if Okongwu can consistently hit threes but that isn't the reality. We still wouldn't have ideal spacing with 2 front court players that don't shoot threes. I would also be concerned about our size.

But we can switch everything better than anything

[terrell]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:31 AM, NBASupes said:

For me.

1. Starting center is the biggest issue. Need an offensive minded starter. 

2. Moving OO to the starting 4. 

3. Keeping Bey, Griffin, and JJ as they are excellent off the pine or at least have potential. 

4. Moving from JC contract. He's not needed anymore. 

5. If there is a player Atlanta needs to get, it's Adebayo. He would be perfect next to Bey. He would fit Trae. He makes it easy on Hunter at the 3. He would be ideal too. I know it's not happening but just saying. 

6. Get a backup PG that's reliable like Delon was. 

8. Quin needs to have his imprint all over this team. Trae is proving to want to improve. 

9. Size, size, and size. And shooters 

"7. Let Bogi go, he's been good to us but don't get locked into a contract when you know he has knee issues."

We just locked in to 4 more years......