Official Playoff Game Thread: Celtics at Hawks -- GAME 4

[Peoriabird]

38 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

We can just hope they all miss and have off nights, which is certainly possible.  But that doesn't seem like a prudent strategy to me.  I'm not sure we have any evidence that anyone on this team can be a lockdown defender against 5 guys on the court that can all shoot and make plays.  

So just making an attempt to guard or putting a hand in someone's face when a shot is taken is out of the question. I can't really respond to this extremely low bar set for a professional team who you think can win a game against a competent opponent. This is LP level coaching! Lol!

[JayBirdHawk]

On offense - The team can hit more shots, stop turning the ball over, hit their freethrows

On defense - communicate, focus, effort can be better, REBOUNDING the ball can be better.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@Peoriabird you still can't quote? Peruse this link for a fix.

 

 

Thanks, @JayBirdHawk!  We periodically still seem to have a few people who haven't read that thread. Appreciate the assist to Peo.

[AHF]

22 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So just making an attempt to guard or putting a hand in someone's face when a shot is taken is out of the question. I can't really respond to this extremely low bar set for a professional team who you think can win a game against a competent opponent. This is LP level coaching! Lol!

Do you think they aren't already being directed to attempt to guard the opponent and put a hand in his face on shots?  That is a very strange comment which makes me think you don't think much of Snyder.

[REHawksFan]

24 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So just making an attempt to guard or putting a hand in someone's face when a shot is taken is out of the question. I can't really respond to this extremely low bar set for a professional team who you think can win a game against a competent opponent. This is LP level coaching! Lol!

Just stop.  STOP.  Stop with this extreme nonsense.  No one - not me, not others in this thread - have suggested that the team abandon the defense and just not try.  No one (except you) has suggested they not put a hand up or try to defend.  So just STOP.  

I'm saying that expecting the defense to carry the team is a fool's errand. It's much more likely that the offense can play better than they have (by hitting open shots) than it is that the defense miraculously transforms into something capable of stopping or slowing an elite offense.   

Edited April 25, 2023 by REHawksFan

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not against shooting better but they did just that in the last game and still lost.

That's not true.

Game 4, we shot 43.9% from the field. 

Our regular Season FG% = 48.3%

Game 1,   We shot 38.8% from the field. 

Game 2,  We shot 42.6% from the field. 

Game 3,  We shot 56.0% from the field. 

Game 4,  We shot 43.9% from the field. 

 

For the Hawks to win, they have to shoot their seasons FG% or better.   And what you will find is that success on the offensive end, will help the defense.   We take away fast break scoring, we take away them scoring while we're scrambling because we get the chance to set up our defense.   We won't stop them, but we will limit their easy buckets. 

 

[Peoriabird]

54 minutes ago, AHF said:

Do you think they aren't already being directed to attempt to guard the opponent and put a hand in his face on shots?  That is a very strange comment which makes me think you don't think much of Snyder.

I was just responding to @REHawksFan statement that we can only hope the Celtics miss their shot because the team is incapable of forcing them to miss.

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I was just responding to @REHawksFan statement that we can only hope the Celtics miss their shot because the team is incapable of forcing them to miss.

Way to mischaracterize everything I've said. I would say it was unintentional but we all know better by now. 

[Peoriabird]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That's not true.

Game 4, we shot 43.9% from the field. 

Our regular Season FG% = 48.3%

Game 1,   We shot 38.8% from the field. 

Game 2,  We shot 42.6% from the field. 

Game 3,  We shot 56.0% from the field. 

Game 4,  We shot 43.9% from the field. 

 

For the Hawks to win, they have to shoot their seasons FG% or better.   And what you will find is that success on the offensive end, will help the defense.   We take away fast break scoring, we take away them scoring while we're scrambling because we get the chance to set up our defense.   We won't stop them, but we will limit their easy buckets. 

 

So all the Hawks have to do is shoot 56% from the rest of the series and they win! Brilliant strategy! Time give Quinn a call! Who knew?

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

So all the Hawks have to do is shoot 56% from the rest of the series and they win! Brilliant strategy! Time give Quinn a call! Who knew?

And once again.....no one said that.  

[JayBirdHawk]

23 minutes ago, Diesel said:

For the Hawks to win, they have to shoot their seasons FG% or better.   And what you will find is that success on the offensive end, will help the defense.   We take away fast break scoring, we take away them scoring while we're scrambling because we get the chance to set up our defense.   We won't stop them, but we will limit their easy buckets. 

To Quin's point after G2:

 

"I think our offense has to help our defense," Hawks coach Quin Snyder said. "Some of that will be as simple as making an open shot and not having to defend in transition. And then there's other things. We've battled our spacing. And we've got to continue to really drill down on that, and be unbelievably precise with where we are on the court."

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

And once again.....no one said that.  

Then what you saying @REHawksFan??? The team scored 121 points and still lost by 8 points at home...How many fing points do they have to score in your world to will an fing game @REHawksFan? 130 ppg? Is that enough?

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So all the Hawks have to do is shoot 56% from the rest of the series and they win! Brilliant strategy! Time give Quinn a call! Who knew?

So when I said "THEIR SEASONS FG%"...  did you misread that part or just ignore that part or have troubles interpreting that part??

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So when I said "THEIR SEASONS FG%"...  did you misread that part or just ignore that part or have troubles interpreting that part??

So how many points per game do they have to score to win games in this series?

[REHawksFan]

23 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Then what you saying @REHawksFan??? The team scored 121 points and still lost by 8 points at home...How many fing points do they have to score in your world to will an fing game @REHawksFan? 130 ppg? Is that enough?

I'm not playing this game with you.  You repeatedly lie about what I say.  There's zero chance, in my estimation, that you aren't bright enough to understand what you are doing.  It's impossible to even talk with you because you don't respond with anything that I've actually said.  You respond to something completely made up by you and expect me to defend it.  I won't.  If you want to address the points I've actually made, fine.  Otherwise, just go away. 

To reiterate what I've said:

• 3 pt shooting matters
• Teams that shoot better from 3 in the playoffs have faired better thus far
• Hawks need to hit a higher % on their wide open shots than they have in the playoffs (goes for 2s and 3s)
• Hawks are capable of doing so as we've seen in the regular season 
• Hawks have created quality, open looks this series
• Hawks are better offensively than they are defensively
• Because they are so poor defensively, it's not reasonable to expect them to shut down or slow down an elite boston offense consistently enough to hold them to 100 points or so
• Playing an all defense lineup is challenging offensively which is a problem given how elite boston is and how prolific they can score
• The most reasonable path to winning a game (and by extension the series) vs boston is to improve their shooting on wide open shots; but I've never once said shooting better guarantees a win, just that the path to victory would likely include that.

If you want to oppose and respond to the actual points I've made above, fine. Have at it.  Stop with the nonsense of making extraordinary claims and then demanding that I defend them.  

Edited April 25, 2023 by REHawksFan

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So how many points per game do they have to score to win games in this series?

It's not about points per game.   It's about how often do we put the ball in the basket.  Yeah, there's a bit of a difference.  If we can do it more than 48.9% of the time that we shoot it, it will probably yield a win.  WHY.. because our defense gets more opportunities to set up. 

At the end of game 3, Trae and DJ were trading 3s for 2s with the Celtics but that was after the game was out of reach.  It makes the final score look pretty... because at the end, we pulled our Points up to 121.   However, the game was lost in the first quarter...

In the first quarter they scored 35 points to our 25 points.   They hit 46% of their shots to our 36%...  That means that in the first quarter, our offense tried to play against their set defense close to half of the time we had a possession. 

In the 2nd quarter.... loss by two..   We shot 37.5% to their 54.5%.

In the third quarter.. that we won...  We shot 60% to their 55.6%.  

In the 4th quarter ... .loss by three.   We shot 41.7% to their 52.2%

The Problem is our shooting percent.   We can't have 36% FG% and expect to beat this team... no matter what kind of defense we're playing.   48.9% or better is the key...

 

[Final_quest]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

expect to beat this team... no matter what kind of defense we're playing. 

 

@Peoriabird I got this one covered.

So…. you’re saying we should expect to win without playing defense?  Absurd.  

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

@Peoriabird I got this one covered.

So…. you’re saying we should expect to win without playing defense?  Absurd.  

Nailed it.  

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

we should expect to win

Exactly Quest...

 

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So all the Hawks have to do is shoot 56% from the rest of the series and they win! Brilliant strategy! Time give Quinn a call! Who knew?

You should slow down and actually read what people post before you respond.  You keep strawmanning people by re-stating their position in a materially different way than they did.  Like here Diesel clearly said he thought if we shot our season average 48.3% that we should win and he noted we won the game where we shot 48.3% or better and we lost the three games where we did not.  You then took his post and strawmanned it into an argument that we need to shoot 56% from the floor which is something he clearly never said.  

I'm sure you aren't deliberately misrepresenting Diesel's position so it must be that you are moving too quickly before you've absorbed what they actually said.  This inadvertent strawman is a repeated issue for you and it gets in the way of actual conversation.