Official Playoff Game Thread: Celtics at Hawks -- GAME 4

[Peoriabird]

You are so freakin dense I'm not sure why I bother even talking with you.  Good grief

Back at you! At least we have something in common!

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

You are so freakin dense I'm not sure why I bother even talking with you.  Good grief

Back at you! At least we have something in common!

So just to be clear, you offer up ZERO ways or paths for the Hawks to even win another game vs Boston but want to sit here and criticize others for trying to come up with a way they can win??  Asinine

 

[Diesel]

Let the PItbull Play!!!

 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

So just to be clear, you offer up ZERO ways or paths for the Hawks to even win another game vs Boston but want to sit here and criticize others for trying to come up with a way they can win??  Asinine

I beg to differ!

[REHawksFan]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

So just to be clear, you offer up ZERO ways or paths for the Hawks to even win another game vs Boston but want to sit here and criticize others for trying to come up with a way they can win??  Asinine

I beg to differ!

And?  What's your brilliant strategy for a Hawks win?  

[Peoriabird]

What's your defensive strategy @Peoriabird??

I did an entire post on this where I blamed the coaching staff for not emphasizing defending the pick and roll when they 1st arrived. Secondly, this unproductive double team of the perimeter players 25 feet away from the basket leaving Smart or whomever wide open has to stop immediately. 3rdly Capela can't play heavy minutes and Okungwu has to step it up. Capela is an atrocious defender now...I would even try some small ball with John and JJ in the front court over Capela playing 20 plus minutes.  Let's face it, this season is over and the focus should be addressing the center position and getting something for Murray in the offseason.

[Wretch]

30 minutes ago, Diesel said:

First and foremost (because I couldn't quote it) all players play a role and therefore all players are role players.   So that term doesn't hold any meaning.   Secondary scorer?  Maybe.

Hunter is never going to be a poor man's Klay.  He doesn't shoot well enough, move without the ball naturally enough, or have the killer instinct. 

He could model his game after Kahwi a lot easier.   And I don't know why we can't use a poor man's Kahwi?

 

You misunderstand me. The statement about Klay/Kawhi wasn't at all about if Dre could be anything like Klay.  It's about "what we need vs. what we have." Again, not so much about what Hunter will be...

Given prime Klay/Kawhi, or downgraded versions of either, Klay is a natural fit for what we have.  What Hunter COULD BE tracks with how Kawhi plays.  My point is that given the choice, another iso/face up player is less valuable to us than a legit 3nD.  He can fill that role...okay I guess?  But it's probably in Hunter's best interest, and ours, for him to move out of the shadow of our ball-dominant guards IF he's going to be more than what we've seen.  Quin's coaching magic notwithstanding of course.

This isn't really that complicated a take - it's just made complicated because we quite naturally fall into polarized camps on any given topic.

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let the PItbull Play!!!

 

 

 

I like AH...  Why have we stopped playing him?

[AHF]

56 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I wouldn't argue the part in bold.  In fact, I said at a minimum he'll be a core piece to a very good team.  Does he have the aggressiveness to push himself to be better?  That's debatable.  Can he improve his ball handling? This is also debatable.

Will he become more aggressive and improve his ballhandling while being relegated to the 3rd option on isolation or otherwise nailed to the perimeter waiting on CNS?  That's not debatable to me and is really all I'm saying.  

Also, teams are targeting Trae, PnR, and DJ.  Alternatively, they're looking for Bogi on CNS.  I don't think there will be much opportunity to judge exactly what he can do against dedicated pressure.  Admittedly he's been mid and inconsistent at best, but he has also been injured...and now that he's healthy, he's 3rd string.

We're not doing this merry-go-round again AHF! lol Let's come back here when the dust settles on him.  Though, tonight is going to be a good opportunity for some real commentary on him.

I see no reason a player can't improve his ballhandling while being the 3rd option on a team.  What is preventing him from improving those skills?  Some guys leave high school with better skills in that department.

As far as what Hunter can do against dedicated pressure, we'll see that when teams target him.  Might see it in Game 5 if Boston decides to make sure he doesn't see another wide open shot.  If they choose not to focus on him again, I hope he has another great game punishing that.  

[JayBirdHawk]

JC is Struggling mightily on offense but holding his own on defense.  Needs to be said.

 

 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Wretch said:

I like AH...  Why have we stopped playing him?

Same reason Griffin hasn't played.  Quin shortened the rotation for the playoffs and he didn't make the cut.

[h4wkfan]

19 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

A game. A series. Whatever.  If they don't shoot better, they won't win a dang thing

Down 3-1...hello... anybody home? This is not that shooting team so that plan will fail almost 100% of the time. Even your precious Trae Young can't shoot. He is a below average outside shooter period so if he has one of his typical games and Quinn goes all in on the shoot it Trae offense, we are going to lose by 30. Having said that, Trae can have one of those rare games that he use to have and drop 50 but it seems like those days are long gone.

Excellent post! We can lock Trae in to go off for 60 tonight and carry us to a W. Thanks for that!! 

[REHawksFan]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What's your defensive strategy @Peoriabird??

I did an entire post on this where I blamed the coaching staff for not emphasizing defending the pick and roll when they 1st arrived. Secondly, this unproductive double team of the perimeter players 25 feet away from the basket leaving Smart or whomever wide open has to stop immediately. 3rdly Capela can't play heavy minutes and Okungwu has to step it up. Capela is an atrocious defender now...I would even try some small ball with John and JJ in the front court over Capela playing 20 plus minutes.  Let's face it, this season is over and the focus should be addressing the center position and getting something for Murray in the offseason.

So instead of double teaming Tatum you just do what exactly?  Let Hunter play him 1-1 and foul out in the 2nd quarter? Put JC on him?  Or JJ?   And how does any of that stop Boston - the 2nd best offense in the regular season and top 5 shooting team in the NBA - from scoring at will against our undersized and overmatched, non-defensive playing players??  

So your whole plan to win is for a team that is historically terrible at defense to play better defense in the playoffs against an elite offensive team that has more depth and quality than the Hawks?  And THAT'S more plausible to you than asking a team that has been elite on offense all year to shoot a little better?  They are already creating high quality looks.  Just make them.  That's decidedly more plausible than asking this team to defend at the necessary level to shut down boston.  Which is exactly what you'd have to do if you are going with an all defensive lineup.  

 

[Peoriabird]

So your whole plan to win is for a team that is historically terrible at defense to play better defense in the playoffs against an elite offensive team that has more depth and quality than the Hawks?  And THAT'S more plausible to you than asking a team that has been elite on offense all year to shoot a little better?  They are already creating high quality looks.  Just make them.  That's decidedly more plausible than asking this team to defend at the necessary level to shut down boston.  Which is exactly what you'd have to do if you are going with an all defensive lineup.  

It's more of a plan then coach Rehawkfan walking in to the locker room to tell the team to shoot better then breaking the huddle on 3.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Welcome to the modern NBA.

Pretty simple.  It’s essential.

[JayBirdHawk]

@Peoriabird you still can't quote? Peruse this link for a fix.

 

 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@Peoriabird you still can't quote? Peruse this link for a fix.

 

 

It worked!!! Thanks Jaybird! Now I can really go after @REHawksFan lol!

[REHawksFan]

11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So your whole plan to win is for a team that is historically terrible at defense to play better defense in the playoffs against an elite offensive team that has more depth and quality than the Hawks?  And THAT'S more plausible to you than asking a team that has been elite on offense all year to shoot a little better?  They are already creating high quality looks.  Just make them.  That's decidedly more plausible than asking this team to defend at the necessary level to shut down boston.  Which is exactly what you'd have to do if you are going with an all defensive lineup.  

It's more of a plan then coach Rehawkfan walking in to the locker room to tell the team to shoot better then breaking the huddle on 3.

You finally said something halfway reasonable.  Of course it would be ridiculous for me to walk in and tell them to shoot better.  These dudes are professionals. And besides, Coach Quin has already said it many many times so why would I have to say it?  He's spoken AD NAUSEM about the importance of them shooting well and seeing the ball go in.  Said he would be upset if they didn't take open shots.  But you keep sticking that head in the sand.  It's serving you well right about now. LOL

You are completely ignorant if you think they've given up on the idea of shooting better.  You can bemoan me and my takes all day long.  IF the Hawks do the unthinkable tonight and win the game, you can be damn sure their shooting will be a big key unless Boston starts bricking everything.  The Hawks aren't beating boston by playing some defensive lineup and hoping for the best.  

Just now, Peoriabird said:

It worked!!! Thanks Jaybird! Now I can really go after @REHawksFan lol!

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

You finally said something halfway reasonable.  Of course it would be ridiculous for me to walk in and tell them to shoot better.  These dudes are professionals. And besides, Coach Quin has already said it many many times so why would I have to say it?  He's spoken AD NAUSEM about the importance of them shooting well and seeing the ball go in.  Said he would be upset if they didn't take open shots.  But you keep sticking that head in the sand.  It's serving you well right about now. LOL

You are completely ignorant if you think they've given up on the idea of shooting better.  You can bemoan me and my takes all day long.  IF the Hawks do the unthinkable tonight and win the game, you can be damn sure their shooting will be a big key unless Boston starts bricking everything.  The Hawks aren't beating boston by playing some defensive lineup and hoping for the best.  

I'm not against shooting better but they did just that in the last game and still lost. They have to find away to get stops period otherwise it will be more of the same unless you think the Hawks are capable scoring at will against the #2 defense in the league in their own building.

[REHawksFan]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

I'm not against shooting better but they did just that in the last game and still lost. They have to find away to get stops period otherwise it will be more of the same unless you think the Hawks are capable scoring at will against the #2 defense in the league in their own building.

What I'm saying is Games 2, 3, and 4 were all fairly close throughout.  The hawks strength is offense and they were able to create open looks for a lot of players against that elite defense.  Even playing the same level of defense that the Hawks have played in these games, just hitting more of your open shots will go a long way to winning the game.  And that still might not be enough.  

It would be great if they could clamp down and hold Boston to 100 points or something.  Get stops late in the game.  But I think the likelihood of them doing something like that is a whole lot less than them just hitting their open shots.  And again, they've done it before. There is precedence for these same players making shots.  It's been inconsistent for sure and that's what's maddening about this team.  But every one of them is capable of going out and shooting 40% from 3pt.  And that's what it will likely take to win.  

Back to the defense....how many clutch, contested 3s has Tatum hit this series?  Every time they need one he hits it.  Do you think there's anything the Hawks can do to stop it?  Do you think there's anything the Hawks can do to slow Tatum down if you don't want them to double him?  The doubles allow an open shooter.  And Boston hits their open shots.  How many wide open corner 3s has Smart hit?  What about White or Brogdon or Horford?  

We can just hope they all miss and have off nights, which is certainly possible.  But that doesn't seem like a prudent strategy to me.  I'm not sure we have any evidence that anyone on this team can be a lockdown defender against 5 guys on the court that can all shoot and make plays.  

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It worked!!! Thanks Jaybird! Now I can really go after @REHawksFan lol!

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